“There is no such thing in the world”. WHICH IS Armenia’s 200-300 Kilogram Stone Door?

How are the caves formed, which type is only in Armenia, what are the obstacles in terms of turning these places into tourist centers? We talked about these and other issues speleologist Smbat Davtyan with.

– 1975-80 you studied at the Faculty of Geography of YSU, in the Department of Geomorphology and Cartography. Since then, have you become interested in caves?

– In my student years, there was such a subject as geomorphology, and the professors said that it studied the landforms of the earth. river valleys, glaciers, caves. They also said that there is no need to wait for long caves in Armenia under these conditions. Well, we also saw the smaller ones, the volcanic caves. After graduating from the university, the scientific secretary of the Armenian Geographical Society, Rafael Vanyan, invited me to work, asking if I would do mapping work, and I thought, if I do it on the surface of the earth, why shouldn’t I do it underground? In fact, there is a difference between mountains and valleys. In 1981 The government of the Armenian SSR made a decision, that is, the 3 caves of Vayots Dzor – Arjeri, Mozrovi, Magellani – should be turned into tourist facilities.

Before that, one of our climbers, Edward Sargsyan, gathered a group that was studying the caves of Armenia. They reached Vayots Dzor and an interesting event happened. During the construction of the road, blasting was done and a cave was opened. Then it was called Mozrov Cave.

They came to study, they saw that it was valuable. Then Magellan Arakelyan, one of the hunters of Areni village, approached the group of researchers, saying that he had found such a large cave. Takes, shows. In the village, he was called Magel, and the cave was named that way.

Then the Cave of Bears was also discovered (1978), and since we had no experience, specialists were invited from the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine under the leadership of Alexander Klimchuk. A part of the Bear Cave was studied, a project was presented, in 1984. the second part of the cave was discovered, they did not come.

Vanyan called and said, “It’s almost time for you, let’s see what you’re doing.” I went, I look, people are barely crawling past, will it be possible to map the cave? We shortened the statives, created interesting things, did that part, a wonderful image was obtained. Unfortunately, that image is distorted now, because the cave was open for a long time and was exposed to barbarism. The same is the cave of Mozrov. Magellan’s cave was found in a more or less good condition because it was kept closed for a long time.

In 2015, when the Government made a decision to use those caves again, a tender was announced, organizations participated and were able to rent the caves. Magellan and Areni 1 are fully used, Mozrov and Arjer will be impossible to use due to the lack of infrastructure.

And thirdly, the cave with stone doors in Aragatsotn marz is already ready for operation, the direct tenant is probably conducting marketing research. let’s see what the consequences will be.

– Did the caves harm people?

– Yes. See, you will be surprised with what primitive judgment they destroyed everything. The stones are ordinary calcium CO3, the same cement material, they thought it was something precious. Yes, it is actually expensive, but for science. The Institute of Geology is carrying out various projects, samples were taken from all the caves and it was found that the process of cave formation started approximately half a million years ago and ended approximately 50,000 years ago. With that cut, they can determine what climatic conditions there were, what plants grew, what moisture supply there was. But that stone is broken, taken home, after 2-3 years, when it is free of moisture, and the cave is always moist, it turns into dust under those conditions. They cannot keep such things at home.

– How are caves formed?

– Two conditions are necessary for the formation of a cave. if we talk about karst caves, which are the most luxurious, they contain limestone, dolomite, marl, and sometimes salt, which are easily dissolved in water. As well as the presence of water is needed. In this case, caves are formed, but for a long time in science, the opinion was widespread that caves are formed when water pours into these rocks from above. But when you see that there are dome-shaped recesses on the ceiling of the cave, water cannot come and rise. And the opinion was born, the pioneer of which was Klimchuk, that is, the waters coming out from below with high pressure destroyed all that. Indeed, all our caves, at least in Vayots Dzor, have that fold. They are called hypogene caves.

In the case of water coming down from above, they are called epigen. The largest caves in the world are of hypogene origin. Each cave takes millions of years to form. Our caves were formed during the last 1.5-2 million years, when hot waters came out from the subsoil under high pressure and washed the layers.

Volcanic caves are also widespread in RA. They are of two types. One part is the lava tunnels. Hot lava erupts, the upper crust cools quickly, there is still molten lava inside. Then a void is formed and they are called lava tunnels. There are also erosion caves. In the Hrazdan gorge, in Lori, when the river begins to destroy those volcanic layers from above, it enters the layers through lateral erosion.

The third largest group are man-made caves, when people have destroyed them. Goris, Khndzoresk, Geghard have such origins. Imagine, people create a building with artificial means and cultural, religious, residential structures are obtained.

– Did the artificially created caves serve as a hiding place?

– Not just a hiding place. it can be churches, mines… anything. In the world, only near us there are caves with stone doors. Imagine a room that was designed to store grain. they are jar-like wells where grain was stored. And the entrance was closed with a stone door. It is 200-300 kg of stone, which you can easily open and close. It can be considered an engineering masterpiece. This type of cave exists only in RA, on the southern slopes of Aragats mountain, in the territories of Kosh, Ujan, and Verin Sasunik villages. Every year our young colleagues discover 2-3. In the 1980s, we found 40, now their number has reached 60. And our country must make serious efforts to protect them. These are fantastic things. Such is the world of caves. It will not occur to you that your ancestors decided to create such granaries 1000 years before you.

– In other words, new caves are being discovered.

– Of course. The discovery of the cave is a bit of a coincidence. You can pass the same path 100 times and not see it, and another person will pass it and see it. 40 years ago, we were working in the gorge of the Karadzor River, and I accidentally discovered a cave where there was a manuscript. It was a hot day. In 1986 it was the month of July and we were looking for a shade to take shelter in some crack. A crack appeared in the distance. We decided to take shelter so that we could work in the evening. There was no water, no trees, no bushes, a terrible desert. There were snakes and whatever. We were afraid to walk without looking at our feet. We climbed through the crack, sat down for a while. Then, when we stopped, we saw that the dust was going inside. This meant that there were volumes inside. If it weren’t for the dust, we would have continued on our way. We entered and went through the crack. it was a huge cave with the heads of ancient animals: a camel, a leopard, everything was there.

After finishing the measurements, I said, “Let me see what’s there.” When I cast the flashlight on the rock, I saw something square. I wiped off the dust and noticed that it was a book pattern. I opened it and saw the letters. We told our managers, the next day the director of the Matenadaran, Sam Arevshatyan, the head of the manuscripts department, Yuri Ter-Vardanyan, came and said, let’s see what you found. We went up and took it down. It turned out to be a 13th-century manuscript. If the weather was cool, we would not have climbed there in our lives.

– Do accidentally discovered caves get names?

– This is how it is accepted in the world: first they number. In addition, local names are used. One, let’s say, put the Bear’s cave, the other – Magellan’s, Mozrov’s. All of them are named after places, it is not desirable to name people, because there is a law that a cave can only be named after a person 10 years after his death.

– What was the name of what you found?

– Manuscript cave. It is located in Vedu region, approximately 4 km southwest of Zangakatun village. We have the problem of removing animal bones. If the zoologists ask, we will go and take it out, we will give it to them.

– A rock painting was found in Yeghegnadzor a few years ago, right?

– Yes, it is near Gandzak village. We found it during the work of the Armenian-Italian expedition. We went, it was an open space. One of the young men saw it and said it was a rock painting. Now I think the experts of the Institute of Archeology are studying it.

– I remember in 2016․ During the press conference, the speleologists said that the caves must be used by tourists, otherwise they will be destroyed. Why? Isn’t it the opposite?, go, nothing will happen.

– No. Any monument lives when it is used. If the cave is lost, anyone can enter and exit. The entire cultural layer of Magellan’s cave was made of stone and rubble. Gold had been collected, not to mention that the stalactites had been smashed. We have more than 10 caves that can be used, there is simply no interest, or people do not want to get into the bureaucracy.

In the caves of Magellan and Aren 1, young people work, who will not leave their villages.

– What dangers do caves contain?

– If they are improved and illuminated, there is no danger. But if you enter a wild cave, anything is possible. You can see a snake, a scorpion, especially in Armenia. Even if there is an earthquake, there will be more destruction outside than inside the cave. The Geghard caves are a structure of the 13th century. after that century, all the buildings were destroyed by the Garni earthquake, but only cracks appeared inside the cave.

– Who is interested in caves?․ those who love adventure tourism or vice versa?

– Adventure tourism lovers like to crawl in dust and mud. Others are interested in the culture, how people lived, what happened there, was it a permanent settlement or a shelter?

The expedition of the Institute of Archeology was conducting a joint study with the Czechs in the Magellan Cave. they found a piece of fabric. the analysis showed that the people of Areni took refuge in that very cave during the time of Shah Abbas. Shah Abbas came, emptied Eastern Armenia, he could not take the people of Areni, because they took refuge in a cave. The fabric showed the historical fact. Areni people are indigenous. They could not be transferred to Nor Jugha.

– Representatives of which field of science may be interested in the cave?․ are they doing research or not?

– To everyone. even the philosopher has something to do there. One of Plato’s works is called “The Cave”. Another thing is that it is usually difficult to generate such interest in our country. 40 years ago, when we were working, there were enough interested people, now their number has decreased.

We are a nation of builders, aren’t we? But let me say one thing. the architects who work on the surface of the earth had a different way of thinking and knowledge compared to those who worked underground. The “builder” of the Geghard cave had a wonderful engineering brain. He created a system of caves that intersect in two places. I think he did it on purpose, for acoustics. What tools did they work with, how did they work underground, we don’t know. Let’s suppose that the walls can be demolished with a pickaxe or a crowbar, but how did they direct it inside so that it does not touch the others, how did they measure it? They had serious knowledge, they understood well from geology what kind of rock to dig in, so that collapse does not occur.

We also have underground cult structures, which do not repeat the ones above ground. In other words, they are unique only for underground areas.

There are types of halls, we have domed caves that do not have that shape outside. Or, a church complex with 2-3 vestibules, which does not have a similar structure outside. All this is an interesting science, which is unfortunately not practiced in our country.

– When did man turn to the cave for help?, mainly in case of “escape”?

– Man was born in a cave, even our gods, Mihr, Khaldi. The Urartians even had an underground God, Ayriani. Christ was also born in a cave, right? The hero of our epic, little Mher, is sheltered in the cave until now, waiting for a just order to be established and to come out. Where are they burying us, essentially in a cave? the coffin is a cave, isn’t it? How many underground heroes do we have? All of that – fairy tales, epics, myths – contain a huge layer. So we did not go far from the caves.

– What is the peculiarity of caves?

– A fantastic and mysterious world. What happened before you? Sometimes I wonder how many people have entered this cave before me. What did they expect to enter? Did they hide from the enemy?

We should be able to develop such a policy that we exploit at least one cave every year for this purpose. You can show your culture through the cave, everything is there: both history and philosophy, how did people live there, what did they do?

To this day, Satan’s Bridge is not used. I am sure that if the state makes an effort, investors will be found. People are just afraid of bureaucracy. They want so much paper. Moreover, there is a form of examinations that no one understands what it is. Let’s say, how can you damage the cave? We say that we do not harm, we only use. They say, “Are you coming in?” Well, let’s say, don’t leave the house, don’t walk on the street, in the forest too. What are those standards? There is only one thing abroad: does it harm a person or not? And we are told that if you enter the cave, you will cause harm. Close the caves, what happened?

– Let the dust of centuries sit on it․․․

– There are thousands of such caves, the location of which we still do not know. Davrizhetsi describes an interesting cave where riches are buried. And if we take into account the fact that everything he described is true, a lot has been found, so that cave also exists, right? No one found it. And they won’t find it, maybe it has already collapsed. Our historians have left a huge amount of information. The story is so interesting that if you present it to others, they will understand what country you live in.

– In which part is that cave that they are looking for and can’t find?

– Do you want to go find it?

– Yes.

– It is in the territory of the Khosrov reserve. If we could find it, it would be wonderful.

– Is it true that in the case of caves, satellites do not work?

– No, they are underground, but those satellites can provide very interesting information about the earth’s surface. When we were exploring Magellan’s cave, it never occurred to us that we could find the hole above, from which water is being absorbed now. They saw that picture on Sputnik. The hole is 50 m in diameter and 15 meters deep, where snow accumulates in winter and rain in summer penetrates into Magellan’s cave through a crack.

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