168: As a result of the same propaganda, Saakashvili was tied to … Iran

Satik Seyranyan’s guest in “Pressing” program is Turkologist, doctor of historical sciences, professor Ruben Melkonyan is

The main points of the interview are below.

• In the 21st century, we live in an era of post-truth or metamodernism, and wars and victories also fit into this context. Even before this war, the negotiations were proceeding normally, they did not reach a deadlock, but the war started. With this war, Iran broke stereotypes, and when the whole world said that Iran would collapse in a few days, Iran proved that Iranian civilization gave birth to a political system, and today’s Iran is a state like a stump, whose roots go back centuries. Iranian society also became united, rallies and disagreements were left behind, religious leaders were ready for martyrdom. The state, under sanctions for decades, did not collapse.

• Iran’s red lines went into effect and it began striking American strategic targets in the region. There was no blitz-war, no internal collapse of Iran, no Iranian capitulation: 

• In all wars in the 21st century, the sides say we won. Even after the 44-day war, where we unfortunately lost, after some time Nikol Pashinyan announced that we won and gained independence and a state. In this case, America declares that it won, Iran says that it is the winner. I can say that Iran suffered unspeakable great losses, but entered the negotiation field with a better position, the Iranian state had gains. Iran has proven that it can go up against the world’s number one superpower, plus Israel, proving that its dignity is non-negotiable. Iran struck and American bases and Israeli cities, shattering their image of being unhittable. In fact, it was also recorded that the control of the Strait of Hormuz is given to Iran, and today the world is fighting for the control of the corridors.

• How can one gleefully announce the destruction of a centuries-old civilization, or kill an 86-year-old spiritual leader with a minor granddaughter, and announce it with hilarious dance moves, as Trump did? The time will come when eccentric leaders will be replaced by non-eccentric leaders. It was only after the intervention of the no-eccentric Vance that the current truce became possible. It is in the interests of world peace that the era of rule by eccentric leaders end.

• This truce is definitely fragile because America’s and Israel’s motives are not entirely satisfied, if not in many cases, failed. The Iranian lesson was an instructive lesson for our region. This is the style of Eastern politics, not what the Armenian authorities are showing, recognizing the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan 78 times, in numbers and centimeters.

• Iran also says that this ceasefire does not mean that America is already a friend, and Iran will never forget what the US and Israel did. If the Iranian image is winning, the myth of Israeli invincibility has been shaken, and Israel now has a negative image curve.

• Vance stood up for American interests, not against anyone. During these war days, Vance was inactive, sometimes unavailable to the press, meaning that Vance did not agree with what was happening in Iran.:

• For the comfortable American society, it is unclear why their soldiers should die in the Middle East. This dissatisfaction is also manifested in the state apparatus. We are now seeing culpability in the US as well as loud resignations.

• Not listening to narrow experts, American politics has entered into this adventure and now has to take a step back to save face.

• If Iran has lost, as Trump says, then how does Iran present preconditions for negotiations?

• A dignified death… when they are martyred for the sake of the motherland, for the sake of values… It is also known from our history that our kings and generals also suffered when death did not reach the horse’s saddle… “Known death” is characteristic of our region, the eastern civilization. This is how the Iranian leaders were martyred. For them, it was a matter of dignity not to hide in bunkers, hiding places. Ali Larijani, in addition to the positions he held, was a doctor of philosophy. That is, you kill a person with whom it was possible to negotiate. You accept the proven terrorist president of Syria, but you consider Dr. Larijani a terrorist and decide to definitely kill him:

• The loss of Iran’s spiritual leader is very great, but the state pyramid does not collapse with his death, the same in the case of Larijani and other generals. In other words, the state builds its security on several foundations. In Iran, as it was in medieval France, when they said, “The king is dead, long live the king,” referring to the new king and the replacements of other key figures, the same mentality prevails. 

When the Iranian Foreign Minister was asked if he is not afraid that they will kill you, he said: let them kill me, not me, there are 5 candidates for Foreign Minister, one will be. And Nikol Pashinyan says, “If it’s not me, Armenia will not have a prime minister, there will be a war.” with this, Nikol Pashinyan says: this is not a state, it is a party. The contrast is obvious:

• I don’t know whether Trump has changed his WhatsApp number or not because of this war. They linked state security to Trump’s phone number. You can’t associate the security of your state with a person. And if Trump is impeached tomorrow, what will happen?

• One cannot deceive the Iranian state and say: you know, this is not “Zangezur Corridor”, it is TRIPP. What, some people think, will Iran allow some American military organization to come and establish influence on 42 km in its south?

• In the case of TRIPP, the image of Trump as the bringer of peace was greatly exaggerated. With this war he crushed that mentality. What kind of peacemaker is it, if Trump can kill hundreds of girls and not feel bad about it, be happy…

• The “call center” problem is part of my specialty. The book we authored is available, they could read it. And if after reading it they say “Zangezur Corridor” is not a problem and is a guarantee of peace, then they do not realize the depth of the issue. A scientist is not obliged to listen to politicians, but politicians are obliged to listen to scientists, will it be Trump or any of the government or opposition politicians of Armenia? Therefore, I would recommend that if they don’t know the subject in depth, at least they don’t talk about it. 

• I followed the speech of the 3rd President Serzh Sargsyan at the RPA congress and I can’t help but notice that the emphasis on TRIPP, “Zangezur Corridor” in the speech was filled with both political experience and the correct combination of objective facts. Something was being said that no scientist can say is wrong. However, the political field of Armenia is rich with politicians who can use their experience and knowledge to serve the interests of the state, but unfortunately, today they are not the ones who decide the issues of the state. Objectively, there are few like them. There are Armenians in the RPA, people with Armenian political experience. No need to mix wet with dry. I looked with deep respect at the speeches given at the congress on how to give such accurate assessments of the issues related to the state:

• If we look at the evaluation of some opposition forces regarding TRIPP, if you don’t read their name below, you will know that it is CP.

• Going to peace does not mean forgetting your history at all. This government mixes two different things: peace and historical memory. We are a friendly country with Iran, that means we should not talk about the battle of Avarayr, should we remove the statue of Vardan Mamikonian? This is what Nikol Pashinyan is doing today, saying: forget Artsakh so that there is no war:

• Nikol Pashinyan says: let’s stop the genocide race. This appeal is not addressed to Turks or Azerbaijanis, but to our public. This is unfortunate. Let me say something grotesque, it can reach him, they say: if we say: Armenian Genocide, Artsakh, Sumgait, Baku massacres, then Azerbaijan can also say: 1918 genocide, so let’s not say it, so that they don’t say it either…

• In big politics, gossip and false heroism have dire consequences. We have seen the interactions of our 3 victorious presidents with their Russian and American counterparts, but we have never seen anything like this, because if your country is going to be in a difficult situation because of your brazen speech for 5 minutes, then your behavior is not right. Naturally, I cannot be happy about the hints and actions already taken by the Russian president or the state elite, but the slaps of big states are usually painful for the people of those countries. I’m not talking about being scared, but if you’re such a brave figure, once behave like this show in the meetings with Ilham Aliyev, during which he behaves poorly.

• Our public’s displeasure with CSTO is related to not reacting in any way during the Azerbaijani attacks on Syunik and Jermuk. Nikol Pashinyan was only required to tell Putin that.

• If, as a result of Nikol Pashinyan’s baseless propaganda, RA citizens have to suffer with the increase in gas prices, for example, then let them remember that when the lights go out in Europe, the sales of antidepressants go up… Are our people ready for such sacrifices? Remember what happened during the Russo-Georgian war, when Saakashvili was chewing his tie because the Russians approached Tbilisi and the Western partners did not support in any way? And what I’m saying is not at all about giving up dignity.

• CP is consistent and hateful against internal enemies alone. There is no such consistency in foreign policy. CP is honest in this regard and our society should take serious consequences. With his published program, he says: whoever elected me on June 7, know that you are voting to go against the Holy Father and the Church. The removal of the Catholicos is part of their pre-election program, and the people should know this clearly. By voting for Pashinyan, you are voting against our church, Armenian identity and the Church. This is what Turkey wants. The Armenian Apostolic Church is the institutional enemy of the Turkish state, and this has been proven:

To remind: Nikol Pashinyan, who encourages and propagandizes sectarian organizations, will continue the campaign of attacks against the Armenian Apostolic Church and His Holiness the Patriarch. A few days ago, CP presented its pre-election program, road map, by which it announced that it will continue its anti-church steps if elected on June 7.

Here are the steps of the “Civil Agreement” party’s anti-church program.

a) Removal of the de facto head of the Armenian Apostolic Holy Church (retirement title),

b) Election of the Catholicos deputy in accordance with the established procedure,

c) Adoption of the Charter of the Holy Armenian Apostolic Church․ The charter should establish structures for maintaining the established principles, ensuring financial transparency and the good behavior of the clergy.

d) Election of the Catholicos of All Armenians in accordance with the established procedure. 

Details in the video.

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