“They Burned, But Didn’t They Hide a Part?” Where did they move to Korel Baghaberd?

Ara Zaryani, a rehabilitative architect within the framework of the “People” program we talked with the author of the book “Fortresses of the World of Syunyants”, St. About the fixing and cleaning of the mural painting (13th century) in the upper part of the entrance of the Astvatsatsin Church.

– Recently, the book “Fortresses of the World of Syunyan” was published, which summarizes your work done in your youth. How did you finally decide to bring it to life?

– After I graduated from the Yerevan Polytechnic Institute, on the advice of my father, I entered the post-graduate course of the History and Theory of Architecture Department of the Art Institute of the National Academy of Sciences of the Republic of Armenia. I had to choose a topic, my father insisted that I deal with the fortresses of the Syunyat world, because there were very few studies.

I knew that going to fortresses is not a joke. You have to go down somewhere and then climb, especially since at that time many forts had no paths and were not accessible at all. Fortresses are generally impregnable, defensive buildings and mostly use rocks, and you can climb from some places, and some parts are inaccessible.

During three years, I visited different regions of Syunik and collected a lot of material. I passed the minimums, all that was left was to collect the text, drawings, schemes, and present them to get the title, but that was actually the end of my study, because the USSR collapsed, before that there was an earthquake, and then the first Artsakh war. I lost my job because the institution, the Monuments Preservation Department, was dissolved, and since I was in the Armenian-Italian study group with my father, we were studying architecture, so it turned out that the center for the study and documentation of Armenian culture moved from Milan to Venice, I got a job offer and moved.

That’s how the years passed. Then, quite by chance, when I was bringing a group of Italians to Armenia, I met Christine Lamoureux, a Belgian fresco restoration specialist. We went to Vorotnavank, where there were traces of frescoes, and he offered to restore them. And a new world of murals opened up for me. When he found out that I was working on fortresses, he told me to show him, and again I had the desire to summarize everything I had collected. I decided to finish my post-graduate studies, but don’t tell me, they don’t even apply to the Art Institute of the National Academy of Sciences, everything has been transferred to YSU. It turned out that I have to enroll in graduate school again, take exams, go to classes, pay, I said, thank you very much, it doesn’t make sense at my age, I will summarize my work.

– Since your father, architect Armen Zaryan, advised you to deal with Syunik fortresses, why did he focus on Syunik?

– There were materials, documentaries, but there was no complete study. Dad wanted me to collect the materials and make a book. Of course, it is not a 100 percent job, I did this alone, but it is a huge area, from the Sevan Basin to Meghri, a part of Artsakh and Nakhichevan. The importance of the work is that all the material has been collected, on the basis of which studies should be continued.

When you go, you find with historical data that there was such and such a defense structure next to such and such a settlement, but you don’t have satellite photos, they didn’t do archeological excavations, they didn’t find objects to explain the history.

For the second year, Baghaberd has been excavated and many interesting things have been found. Studies have also been started in Berdkunk, and all this should be filled in this book. Now there are drones that do excellent measurements. And I did everything by hand at that time.

– How are the fortresses of Syunik different from the fortresses of other regions of Armenia?

– The question is good, but it is impossible to answer 100 percent. For example, the fortresses of Cilicia have not been excavated, but they are well preserved. Robert Edwards in 1970 published a large book. He himself measured by hand, but he measured much better preserved castles, so you can talk about the technical nature of the structures of the fortress building schools of Cilician castles, how they processed the stone, how they chose the place for the castle, but in my case it was like this: I saw the stones, I was measuring them, I understood that they are a part of the castle, but the rest is not visible, it must be excavated.

Excavating is an expensive pleasure. A benefactor will be found to build or restore a new church, but I don’t think there will be one to excavate the castle, because that is a completely different way of thinking. State funds are being invested, excavations are being made, but it will take a long time until we get the correct answer to your question.

– Is there a fortress that surprised you?

– Baghaberd. It is a wonderful castle and, fortunately, it is well preserved. And why is it well preserved, because we had the kingdom of Kapan? 970-1120 there was a kingdom in Syunik. It’s not a joke. It was a fortified area. Baghaberd formed the main military defense link through which Syunik was defended. It was the guardian fortress. And when the Mongols came and destroyed Kapan, the kingdom moved all its possessions to Baghaberd.

In other words, they choose a fortress that was already part of the defense system. Now they are excavating, and I expect that they will find things. For example, Stepanos Orbelyan says: when Kapan fell, 11,000 manuscripts were moved from there to Baghaberd Castle. They seized it, burned it, but didn’t they keep and hide some part? It is on a rock, and from a military point of view, the place is very interestingly chosen.

– Your book will help many specialists, starting with archaeologists, but who or what helped you then, what kind of difficulties did you face or find yourself in adventurous situations?

– There were some adventurous situations in the beginning, but they helped when measuring, because someone had to be there to hold the meter, to measure and write. By the way, I put a big map in the book. when I went on a hike and came back, I marked it on the map. In the end, it turned out that there are 112 castle locations and names. Everything is there, you just have to go and explore the place little by little. They have to form a group, go and check it.

– Did you talk to the residents?

– Definitely, I especially asked the children, sometimes they accompanied me and showed me the places.

– What was the attitude towards monuments then and how is it today?

– During the USSR, there was no problem of funds. It was an atheistic country and the churches were considered as historical monuments, not the house of God. The money was there, but the goal was different. If the monument was destroyed or not well preserved, they had to rebuild it. Now the nature has changed. going, we are rebuilding our temple, the house of God.

For example, a benefactor appears and says: I want to restore this church. You look at the church and say, “Okay, but it doesn’t have that much material, stone, that you want to restore.” But the money is there. However, if the material is not available, it should not be restored, it should be conserved. The canning culture is very developed in Italy.

It is a good thing that the Zvartnots Cathedral was not rebuilt, instead it was conserved in European style.

– To restore our fortresses, there is a need for restoration architects. Are you included in those works?

– No, because we have to follow the excavations, I am not physically in Armenia either, but there are good architects with whom I am in contact. For example, next year I have to go to Baghaberd to see the new works. I participate from a distance, in a consultative manner.

– Let’s also talk about the mural restoration works in Harichivank, as well as how you go and find the churches where the murals need restoration.

– The richest and most important material is located in the vaults of the History Museum of Armenia, which Lidya Durnovo made. He was a specialist in icons. He was sent to Siberia for views. Then the art critic Ruben Drambyan invited her to Armenia, and it was Lydia who noticed that there are wall paintings in Armenian churches, but no one has worked with them. There is a hall of frescoes in the National Gallery and there are copies collected from different churches. That is his grace.

He went and looked, but there was no way to clean or restore it. He thinks about how it can be useful, and he found a way to preserve the mural. He taught artists how to copy a mural, and they continued after his death. They made boards, put cardboard on it, plastered it, and the artists painted with gouache.

We went to study, we compared, and there are pieces that are on the copy, but in reality are no longer there. In other words, the information is already there. He had a notebook where he described everything. And he took a piece of plaster in the match boxes to analyze. Everything is in the archive. All that material should be turned into a book and be accessible, read and understood by the restorers.

Kristin and I followed those footsteps. the frescoes are very poorly preserved and difficult to understand. One day we went to Saint John the Baptist Church in Mastara. It was a liturgy. We asked the Lord Father if there were any traces of a mural in Mastara, he answered that there had never been. We started walking around the church. there were different pieces of plaster on the walls. There was a wooden lodge where the Russian choir stood and sang. Christine had climbed up there, called one more. “Come on, come on, I found something.” He said there is a part of the mural.

I approached. Fingers were visible. We took some cotton and distilled water, cleaned the sides and saw that something was painted. We took the measurements, sent an application to the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, received a permit, and presented the project. We restored it, but you should see what condition the mural was in. During the Soviet period, it belonged to the Kolkhoz, everything was bleached and wheat and barley were stored. It served as a warehouse. Before whitewashing, they plastered well, using a lot of sand and a little lime, using cement. And that plaster covered the traces of frescoes (7th century). When the USSR collapses, the believers go to clean it and with whatever tool they seem to destroy that thick plaster, not knowing that there are traces of the mural.

We restored the mural and it depicted a horseman with a sword and the wind carrying the dress… it is very interesting. The head is missing. That one piece of the mural, the horse’s head and reins, remained under the log of the lodge. I said, let’s open that one step, let’s continue, but it didn’t happen that way. This was a revelation because we discovered a mural in the church that no one knew about. And in the corner of the southern half-tabern, traces of three icons came out.

– Harichivank Monastery St․ The mural of the Astvatsatsin Church? how did you find it?

– There was no historical information. It was in the dark, very badly preserved. It was under the arch and we found it 5-6 years ago. We tried to solve the problem of moisture in the roof. There are such rains and mudslides that you are afraid, you say the world has collapsed. It is raining, wind, hail at a huge speed. Harichivank is at an altitude of 1830 m. This year we were able to fix the preserved pieces of the mural, give color shades. There is something important there. There are two red lines in the lower part of the mural. the mural was about 8 square meters, now about 3 square meters have been preserved. Between the lines is a signed Armenian text in beautiful handwriting. The first and last parts have been preserved. in the first part, a cross is drawn, then there are two dots, then it is written: OZ, two dots: D. It was the turn of the century. ODZ in 1235 is. In 1201 The Church of the Virgin Mary was built by the Zakaryan brothers in 1219. the vestibule is finished, in 1235 – the frescoes. It is very interesting. there is a historical part.

– Is there one or several images?

– It is one picture. It is under the arch, the composition is moon-shaped. Virgin Mary with child. The face of the Virgin Mary has not been preserved, but the upper part of the halo and a small part of the hair are there. The baby Christ is in the arms, placed on the left knee. One hand is placed on the child’s shoulder, the other shows that the savior has come. There is also part of the side of the throne. Apparently, the archangels Michael and Gabriel should be on the right and left. A part of one hand holding an orb has been preserved, the other should hold a scepter.

– What is needed for final recovery?

– I want to restore the entire iconography with the help of artificial intelligence or artists. Show it on the spot, on the wall with spotlights, then color it and have an imaginary image of how the mural could have been in a completely preserved state. There should be a 4-5 minute show, then the lights will be turned off and what is left of the mural will remain.

– Has the mural appeared in this state over the centuries or is there a human factor?

– Both of them. The first is the climatic conditions, over the centuries, rainwater seeped through the wall, the mural fell off. Second, there were small pits of stones. We think that in the Soviet period, children played and hit with stones.

– Your grandfather, the writer Kostan Zaryan, tried to save or transform the Armenian spirit with his works. You are trying to do the same work with a stone, a mural. Can we say that you are able to honor what was assigned to you by fate?

– Apparently, it is not accidental. I followed the activities of my grandfather, Kostan Zaryan, and my father, Armen Zaryan, and inherited my love for the Motherland and culture. I tried to do what I loved. I am continuing the work that my grandfather and father have been doing all their lives.

– You saw your grandfather when he was young, and I remember you said in our previous conversation that when he was walking on Abovyan Street, everyone turned and looked at him. Was he also at home with that royal attitude, or was he changing completely?

– He always dressed neatly, because at that time he came to Armenia from the USA. He wore a bow tie, a hat, and had a cane. In that period, he was not the only one who dressed like that. When he had to work, he dressed well, his hair was always done. In general, he always followed his appearance.

I think this has been transmitted to all members of our family, we always want to be neat. How you present yourself to society matters.

– Did you talk about any topics?

– No, I was very young, and then I didn’t understand what kind of grandfather I had. When we came to Armenia from Italy, I didn’t know Armenian, I only knew Italian, and I started communicating with my grandfather in Italian. He also knew English, German, Spanish, Turkish, French, but he wrote in Armenian all his life. He wrote his main works in Armenian and for Armenians. I remember well, he helped me learn Armenian, but we communicated in Italian.

– What is the next church, mural that is in the center of your attention?

– Years pass, our enthusiasm has not faded, but to be honest, it is already difficult to climb the deck. We think that we can summarize all this work of ours. It is a documentary in our books. We consulted with an Italian specialist and decided to prepare a book related to Armenian mural painting, because we do not know if there is an Armenian mural painting, a mural school. Are the murals that we studied and preserved painted by Armenian painters or not? We don’t know about all of them yet. We know one thing. all frescoes are in Armenian churches.

– You can say that you do these jobs for free, but what do you expect in return?

– Pleasure, satisfaction, happiness. Are you happy that you are leaving something for your nation?

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