CNN
SHOW: CNN LARRY KING LIVE 9:00 PM EST
August 8, 2005 Monday
Encore Presentation: Interview With Peter Jennings
by Larry King
GUESTS: Peter Jennings
Peter Jennings discusses his life, career.
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, Peter Jennings. Now in his 20th year
anchoring ABC’s “World News Tonight.” He’s here for the hour. We’ll
take your phone calls.
He’s next on LARRY KING LIVE.
It’s always a great pleasure to come to New York and always a great
pleasure to welcome to these microphones and cameras Peter Jennings,
the anchor and senior editor of ABC News “World Tonight” (sic),
marking his 20th anniversary as the sole anchor of that program. They
had a big party honoring him the other night.
What does it — 20 — what does it feel like?
PETER JENNINGS, ABC NEWS: Seems like yesterday 0– it seems like
forever all at the same time.
I was trying — because people ask that question how does it feel?
And I — it’s sort of, how do you measure it? Do you measure the fact
that I’m 20 years older? No. I think I measure it by the events. You
know ,I came just as the Cold War was coming to an end. So I’ve been
here — you know, and I had a fabulous 10 years before that, as you
know, watching…
KING: As a co-anchor.
JENNINGS: Yes, but more than that. I was just on the road all the
time, which was absolutely fabulous. And so I wasn’t all thrilled
about coming back to New York.
And then when you think about the events that we’ve been through from
the fall of the Berlin Wall to, I guess you’d say 9/11, being the
culmination at the end of that — of that scope, what extraordinary
changes there have been in the year. And any times those of us who
are anchors and editors and get to play on — in all of those events,
in some way, shape or form, I think that’s how I look at it. Do I
feel older? No, I don’t.
KING: Is the longest individual job you’ve ever had?
JENNINGS: I was a foreign correspondent for almost 20 years. This is
the longest — and I do ask myself some — that on occasion. I didn’t
think I would do it for very long.
KING: That’s what I mean.
JENNINGS: I didn’t plan to do it very long. And it just happens. It
goes on and on and on. And one days of these days either they or I
will say, Thank you very much. We’ll do something differently.
But I’ve never — you know — and I — (UNINTELLIGIBLE) when I came
to the states in the mid 1960s — 1964, 1964 — I didn’t think I’d be
here maybe a couple years, going to have a great experience in the
United States and then go back to Canada. Well, here we are 40 years
later
KING: What do you like best about anchoring? Because I know inertly
you’re a reporter. You like the scene.
JENNINGS: Well, I think all of us in this racket like the scene, as
you put it, and like reporting. But it’s impossible to be an anchor
person and do a whole lot of reporting. We’re editors. And I love the
editing process. The editing process in a newspaper, a magazine or on
television all has something of the same components to it. You’re
shaping something which is larger than an individual piece that you
worked on as a reporter. Where does it go? How does it context? Where
does it belong in terms of lot of the other things?
But I have to say, in people at CNN like Paula and Anderson starting
these programs tonight have to appreciate more than anybody — the
greatest thing for a broadcast anchor person is going live at a
moment of crisis or jubilation or something, whatever it is. On 9/11,
those of us who do the jobs that I do, flew without a net for hour
and hour and hour after end. And then you hope and pray that you’ve
had the experience to be up to it. Because then you’re editor,
analyst, reporter, correspondent, ringmaster, the whole thing.
KING: But you’re unhappy at the same time you’re high, right, in a
sense?
JENNINGS: I — I don’t — I’m not very — I don’t very often get
unhappy. What I do, I get frustrated.
KING: But you’re unhappy about the event.
JENNINGS: Oh, I see what you mean. Oh, I’m sorry.
KING: When you’re dealing with this dichotomy where the focus is on
you, the event is terrible, but you’re the anchor.
JENNINGS: Well, the truth of the matter is — and I’m always a bit
reluctant to say this because people think you’re a bit unfeeling.
The truth of this, on 9/11, people who — myself and others — were
so unbelievably focused on what was happening that we were, for many,
many hours, I think, spared the agony of loss. Because we were going
here, there, there, there, trying to pull the world together and make
some sense of it for people. And being carried along by our reporters
in the field and the events in the field.
I think probably the strongest elements of 9/11 at ABC News was our
investigative team. John Miller, who’s now gone on to work at the Los
Angeles Police Department, sat beside me. And I — you know, I was
conscious all the time of him working the police and fire department
all the time. I was so focused on all of that, that it took me many
hours, until my kids called, ironically. My kids both called and just
left a little message that they were OK. And I turned around and
went, Oh, man that really hit me like a ton of bricks. But most of
the time we were spared that agony for the time being.
KING: We’ll go back to that later.
Let’s go to some things current. What’s your overview of this whole
Iraq thing?
JENNINGS: Well, it’s hard. I never thought it was going to be
anything but hard. I lived in the Middle East, as you know, a long
time. It’s a great American adventure in the Middle East, however
well you prepare for it. And it’s clear, I think, and almost
everybody now acknowledges that we didn’t prepare well enough for the
post-immediate war environment. It’s a big adventure in a part of the
world which has bedeviled foreign powers since the very least the end
of World War I when the British went to Iraq.
Listening to the president last night I think was to be reminded that
he and all of us in the country now feel the challenge of it in ways
that we didn’t feel when the army and the Marines were rushing across
great empty expanses and desert and doing fabulously well.
KING: Did they read it wrong?
JENNINGS: Oh, that’s hard.
KING: Should they have been surprised?
JENNINGS: It’s — it’s — probably we should not have been as
surprised, but I think the confusion of the immediate — let’s call
up to the — up to the end of — up to the period — up to that
moment when the president said major combat is over. It looked easy.
And if it looked easy, I think a lot of people, including a lot of
very good military analysts, yours and ours included, wondered, out
loud in many instances, what’s going on here? You know, where are the
revolutionary guard? Where are the Fedayeen? Why are they falling
back all the time?
You know, what — the — the technological superiority of American
weapons and the organization of moving this huge force at such speed,
I think, held us all enthralled for awhile. I kept reminding myself,
and I have been reminded by some of my colleague who know the area
even better, don’t forget the British advance on Iraq, you know, at
the early part of the century .
And so you always — as long as you keep reminding yourself of
history, I think you’re little — on little safer ground.
KING: You know the region as well as anyone.
JENNINGS: No, not as well as anyone but I’ve spent…
KING: Certainly as any American journalist you know it as well.
JENNINGS: I think even that’s a stretch.
KING: OK. At the end of World War II, Germans didn’t kill American
soldiers. Japanese didn’t kill American soldiers. Why are they
killing American soldiers?
JENNINGS: Oh, because I think, in some respects, a lot of people
think the war is not over. And I have this little thing in my mind
and I have heard other people talk about it much more learned than I,
that Saddam Hussein may have planned for this particularly
eventuality, an absolutely hugely dynamic America onslaught, which
neither he nor the Iraqi army nor the revolutionary guard or anybody
could contend with effectively, and so they would fight in another
way. I don’t know that to be the case.
In fact, one of the things I know distresses people in the
administration and out, is how — whether our intelligence is good,
bad or indifferent in Iraq at the moment. Are we dealing with
remnants of the Fedayeen? Are we dealing with remnants of the Ba’ath
Party? Are we dealing with thugs? Are we dealing with a sudden
intrusion of terrorists from other parts of the neighborhood? I don’t
think we really know.
KING: Why aren’t they happy he’s gone?
JENNINGS: Well, I think some people are happy he’s gone. And some
people could hardly wait for him to go. And some people prayed that
he would go.
KING: That would be the majority, wouldn’t it?
JENNINGS: Yes, I think it would be the majority. But — but what we
see in the wake of the war, or in this continuation of the war is a
measure of chaos and insecurity and inadequacy in people’s lives,
from electricity — some things, by the way, are working quite well
in some parts of the country. If you look at the statistics, you’re
doing well — universities are back, schools are back, hospitals
appear to be working again. So it’s not all bleak as I think some
people make it.
But one of the things that the Ba’ath regime had — this is something
— this is true for the middle class in Iraq to some extent — was
the measure of stability — not order. I don’t want to use the word
order. Stability is the best word. I can’t think of the other one.
KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) worked.
JENNINGS: You knew where things were and you knew what you could do
and you knew what you had to watch out in the society, and it was a
deeply, deeply unpredictable environment in which people lived.
But I think what people miss at the moment is, you know, can I get
power? Can I take care of my — can I take care of my kid? Can I
travel places? And so I — you know, I — we all have to live through
this. And you have to hope and pray for everybody’s sake that what
the president said last night is that it would be better now that
he’s asked for this huge new infusion of money.
KING: Peter Jennings our special guest, the anchor of “ABC News World
Tonight” (sic) 20 years and still going strong.
We’ll be back in a little while. We’ll take your phone calls. Don’t
go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Proud of being George
Bush’s son. My throwaway line has got a lot of wisdom in it. I
inherited half his friend and half his enemies.
JENNINGS: But it’s been hard, sir, to figure out the political
relationship between you and your father. Your staff is sometimes
hostile to reporters who want to know about it.
BUSH: About my political relationship? Because there is no political
relationship. I mean, this is a guy who is my dad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS: The march began in Memphis, Tennessee, three weeks ago and
it ended here on the back lawn of the state capitol building in
Jackson, Mississippi. It started with a single man and ended with a
crowd of more 14,000.
Example of the way people in the country try to convince those of us
who spend most of our time in the United States just what kind of war
this is. This was my first story outside Saigon and I found out in a
hurry. This is Peter Jennings, ABC News.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS: Man.
KING: Handsome devil.
JENNINGS: These are — You get to a certain age in our racket, then
people get cruel.
KING: Especially since I misidentified the name of the show. His
program is ABC’s “World News Tonight.” I was told I said something
wrong but we can’t remember what I said. Anyways it’s ABC “World News
Tonight” 20 years.
JENNINGS: I’m glad to see you’re all getting older.
KING: What do you make of the situation in Israel and Palestinians?
JENNINGS: This is, again, another very difficult — a terrible
cliche. It’s a terribly difficult thing. Another, I think, shock
certainly a setback for the bush administration, which didn’t want to
get involved in the Middle East at first and then decided they could
get involved. Or decided they wanted to get involved and could get
involved. I think somewhat more risk free than it turned out. It’s a
reminder, which we should never forget, that Yasser Arafat, Abu Amar
as the Palestinians call him, is a man huge manipulative — huge
capacity to manipulate. And how everything plays in a triangle,
Palestinians, Israelis and the Americans. So when the United States
comes along and says we’ll have Mahmoud Abbas as the new prime
minister, immediately you feel the street who are angry at the United
States and angry at Israel leaning toward, Yasser Arafat. And Yasser
Arafat takes tremendous advantage of this.
I went to see him recently. I was with the president in the Middle
East and on my way back I stopped in Jerusalem to see some friends in
the Israeli government. And then I ran down to Ramallah to see
Arafat. He was extraordinarily frail. And I made the mistake of
saying to myself, I think he’s out of it. Same mistake that’s been
made by other people of far more greater importance.
KING: Do you react with hostility when people say you’re unfair in
coverage of the region?
JENNINGS: No, not at all. No, I mean, I think no matter what we
cover, people tend to see what we cover through their own particular
political or personal prisms. I always ask people to be specific what
they’re talking about. You can’t cover the Middle East. You can’t
cover American politics. You can’t cover America these days without
finding people in one place or another taking exception to what we
do. I think it goes with the territory. Keeps me, at least I hope,
mindful, always that there’s at least one other opinion and sometimes
a dozen other opinions. And they all bear accounting for. But not
everybody is right you know because somebody says, well you did X,
and you say well, maybe x is right in some cases.
KING: Is it impossible to be totally objective?
JENNINGS: I don’t think it’s the goal. We have this deep strain of
objectivity. I just came back from Britain, as I am saying to you,
and sort of objectivity of the front page of an American newspaper
just doesn’t exist in the British Isle. I grew up — my dad was part
of the pioneers of public broadcasting in Canada. And he always told
me the most important thing you can be in your career is fair. So we
all start to see a box and hope that we see the box in the same way.
But you recognize in time that people see the box or they see traffic
accidents in entirely different ways. So you train yourself over the
years to try and give accounting to the variety of (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
and come to some decent place middle. But I’m not a slave to
objectivity. I’m never quite sure what it means. And it means
different things to different people.
KING: Total objectivity would be blah, wouldn’t it?
JENNINGS: Not necessarily blah, but damn hard.
KING: I mean, journalist sits on the side of the hill and watches the
war and tells me what happens right.
JENNINGS: Not true any more. There’s more advocacy journalism in the
mainstream, it think, in the country today than there was when I was
in my 20s.
KING: Do you like that?
JENNINGS: I don’t dislike it. I feel sorry for the consumer, for the
news consumer. Important thing we need to tell folks all the time is
what they’re getting — it’s hard — I love the Internet, but I do…
KING: You do?
JENNINGS: I love it. I just love it. But sometimes I think I may be
talking to a goat. You know, and that’s hard. I think as long as we
keep telling consumers that there are many strains of journalism in
the country. On the left, on the right, on the top, on the bottom.
People who don’t take the — what, where, for, why’s as some of us
were trained to do. That’s fine, as long as people know what they
getting, we’re very lucky. We live in place where freedom of choice
is essential to the way of life.
KING: With are you looking forward to the coming political campaign?
JENNINGS: Sure yes.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Yes, what do you make of California?
JENNINGS: If you don’t like the poll, wait 15 minutes they will do
another one. I think it’s fascinating. My most recent — having just
come back from overseas, I bring back with me a fair amount of
laughter at the way we do things in the United States. And I have
spent a lot of time saying the people, you know, there’s a certain
robust in the democratic political process here which keeps the
nation young and vibrant. Maybe not young, but certainly vibrant all
the time. I think that’s great. But it’s a deadly serious business
which is costing the state a huge amount of money. And as long as
Californians think it’s worth while and they have operated within a
system they respect, namely within constitutional system they
respect. Hey, it’s…
KING: Is it only a national story because of Schwarzenegger?
JENNINGS: I think Schwarzenegger has made it more of a national
story, than it would have been other wise. I think it’s a huge story,
the idea that people in this huge and important state which
equivalent to the fifth, sixth or seven largest country in the world
have decided to recall their governor rather than wait for the next
election. That in itself is a huge story. But in the age we live
Arnold Schwarzenegger for the moment has given it a cache which it
didn’t have otherwise. I’m not sure it will pay off for him or our
celebration of celebrity doesn’t always end up pleasing the
celebrity. KING: Is Howard Dean’s rise surprising you?
JENNINGS: I watched the debate the other night. I had never seen a
group of them before. And to be honest I have not spent any time with
him. But I have talked with friends of mine who I really respect who
have gone out and seen him on the stump. And when — you and I both
know that seeing a politician live is different than seeing him on
television. And it is sad that we have to see so much of our
politicians on television and not live. But I know he’s very
invigorating to particularly people on the left of the Democratic
party. Again, whether or not it gives him staying power, I do not
know. I thought he did well in that debate compared to the other
guys. But everybody seemed to have a moment in the sun.
KING: We’ll be right back and ask Peter about 9/11. This is the
second anniversary week. And we’ll be taking your phone calls. Don’t
go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS: Almost every day the violence between India and its
neighbor Pakistan intensify is. In the last year, we’ve seen
terrorism, hijackings, artillery exchanges, riots, guerrilla raids.
There is always a reason for Indians and Pakistanis to hate each
other. Very clear. A nuclear war between India and Pakistan is not
beyond the realm of possibility. And if it happens, millions of
innocent people will die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS: The landscape of New York City has changed once again. And
in this instance, it’s not New York City, it’s not New Yorkers’ city,
it’s everybody in the country’s city at this moment. Because this was
an attack on the United States, no question about it. Everybody said
it all day, a declaration of war, an act of war against the United
States. You have any number of politicians and commentators, us
included, who were reminded that the last time there was an attack
like this on the United States was Pearl Harbor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Do you expect to see more goings-on this week on television?
JENNINGS: It’s a hard question. Not really. You know, everybody I
think will do — thought hard about it. I thought the first
anniversary was a vastly more moving than I thought it was going to
be. You know, in our business, we often make a lot of anniversaries.
But I was very touched on the first anniversary by how there was a
sweetness to the celebration, as well as the sorrow.
KING: Good word. JENNINGS: And as I traveled around the country, you
know — I think — there’s a wonderful woman who used to work for us.
I don’t think she’d mind me saying her name, because she’s published
— Ellen Bekalian (ph), who has worked for us and lost her husband in
the Trade Center. She wrote a piece for “The New York Times” the
other day on how she’ll never — she just can’t take off his wedding
ring.
So many people — today at the end of the news, we did a piece on the
last firefighter, funeral today, with only a vial of blood, because
like so — almost half the people, their remains have never been
identified.
For those people, that’s one thing. For the country in large measure
I think has moved on. But I think with Iraq and Afghanistan and the
fact that Osama bin Laden hasn’t been found, there’s a whole other
(UNINTELLIGIBLE). For example, all across ABC News this week, we’re
going to try to ask, good, sensibly, responsibly, is the country
safer, given the money and the new Department of Homeland Security
and the commitments of politicians, and you know, what left open. So,
I’m very proud of what we’re doing. Everybody will do it a different
way. So I’m really not surprised that the country’s moved on.
KING: We understand, congratulations are in order, aside from 20
years. You are now a citizen of the United States.
JENNINGS: Yes, I have been for several months. It was — I didn’t
make a big deal of it, because I wanted to save the announcement for
a July 4 party with a group of my oldest friends who I just knew
would be somewhat blown away.
But I think the most — one of the most exciting days I spent, one of
the most exciting occasions I have had in a lot of years, I was asked
to give the toast to the country at the dedication of the new
Constitution Center in Philadelphia, which is awesome. Everybody
should go there.
KING: Was that on the 4th?
JENNINGS: Yes, on the 4th — it was actually on the night of the 3rd.
And it’s the — just an extraordinary place, where you can touch
American history in ways that I think we never anticipated. But on
the night of the 3rd, I’m sitting at a table with Justice Scalia. And
he gave the toast to the founding fathers, and I gave the toast to
the country. And when I finished, I sat down, and he said, he knows
I’ve told this story, he said, “not bad for a Canadian.” So I got
down on my knees, and I said, “well, actually, I’m an American, but
can you keep a secret?” I now realize how stupid it was to ask a
Supreme Court justice if he could keep a secret.
And on the 20th anniversary of my time at “World News Tonight,” the
other day they had a tape thing, you know, all these people insulting
the hell out of me, and there was Justice Scalia giving me an
American flag. So it was — it was a very big, very big, important
moment.
KING: What’s it like to become an American? JENNINGS: Well, it was a
deeply moving experience. Took me a long time to do it. People ask me
if I feel any different, and the answer is no, which I think reflects
on how American I felt before in so many ways. Robert McNeil (ph) or
Robin McNeil (ph) of public television, who is now a full-time
writer, had went through the same experience and he said something
which I think is really interesting. He was asked what changes had
occurred in his way of behaving and thinking. He said one thing which
I hadn’t thought about. He said, you know, “you absolutely stop
forever thinking that you’re a guest in the country.”
KING: Well put. Do you have dual citizenship?
JENNINGS: Yes. Dual. Strange thing, I looked it up, 107 countries now
permit dual citizenship, including some of the fastest growing
immigrant migrations to the United States.
KING: And you also told me that the Church of Latter-Day Saints has
checked your genealogy.
JENNINGS: They came today. It was a terrific honor.
KING: How far back did they go?
JENNINGS: They’ve gone back farther than I ever went. I didn’t even
know what my grandfather did — was doing, this is very bad of me,
didn’t know what my grandfather was doing when he married my
grandmother. I never knew my grandmother. She died before I was born.
I thought he was in the construction trade.
KING: What was it?
JENNINGS: He was a florist. So they brought his — his wedding
(UNINTELLIGIBLE). A florist, I didn’t know that.
KING: We’ll take a break and come back and go to phone calls for
Peter Jennings, the anchor and senior editor of ABC’s “World News
Tonight.”
JENNINGS: Much better. Much, much better.
KING: Dan Rather’s here tomorrow. Do you know him?
JENNINGS: Dan Rather? Great fellow.
KING: We’ll be right back with your calls for Peter Jennings. Don’t
go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS: Walk down any country road in Cuba, drive down any highway
and this is what you’ll see. Cuba’s life blood, sugar cane. Never in
the history of the revolution has sugar cane been as important as
this year. The 1970 zafra (ph), or harvest, is about to begin. It’s
not just production that is vital. It is the honor of the revolution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS (voice-over): It was about 20 to 4:00 when Dr. King got up.
He was the last speaker. With his speech in his hand and people as
far as his eye could see, he began.
MARTIN LUTHER KING JR., CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER: I am happy to join with
you today in what will go down in history as the greatest
demonstration of freedom in the history of our nation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Peter Jennings recently commemorated the 40th anniversary of
that “I Have a Dream” speech. That was a great show, by the way.
JENNINGS: I have tell you, I — I was just looking at that again — I
think this is what’s — I mean, this is why you be in journalism,
right? I came to the state shortly — about — just about 11, 12 —
almost a year after the famous speech in 1963. In 1963, President
John F. — at that speech, the March on Washington — President
Kennedy had never heard Martin Luther King speak in public.
KING: And didn’t attend.
JENNINGS: And — no, didn’t attend. He watched it from the Oval
Office. And he wouldn’t have attended being president. But — and in
this — we went back, wonderful young producer named Richard Robin
(ph). We went back to try to parse the speech. What was the speech
really like? It was 17 minutes long. We only get that little bit, you
know, on the anniversary every year. And what was the context in
which it was made? What was — what was the country like in that
summer of ’63? And I — you realize that in those days, we rather
casually called Birmingham, Alabama, Bombingham, Alabama, because it
was a very tough town.
That Bull Conner, who was the director of public safety, who set the
dogs on the — and firefighters on the kids just changed things
forever. Up to that — up to that moment in Birmingham in the spring
of ’63, Martin Luther King wondered if he was even relevant to the
civil rights movement. And here we get a chance to dig into the
files, go back and talk to the witnesses and remind one generation of
where we were and how astonishingly things have changed in 40 years
in many ways and tell a whole new generation of thing they don’t have
any idea about.
KING: Where do you rank him among public speakers?
JENNINGS: Oh, I mean, tremendously — I watched that — I’ve watched
that “I Have a Dream” speech, which, by the way — that was not the
first time he had done that. That was the other interesting part to
be reminded of. I have watched that speech. We’ve all watched it
scores and scores of times for this program and any number of us who
watch it for the last– for the “I Have a Dream” portion, people get
— you just get chills up and down your spine.
KING: Let’s go to calls for Peter Jennings in his 20th year as the
anchor and senior editor of ABC’s “World News Tonight.” He first
joined the when they had a triumverate, right? Of hosts.
JENNINGS: I thought you were going to say when I did it in short
pants.
KING: And there were three of you, right?
JENNINGS: Yes, we were — oh yes. Frank Reynolds and Max Robinson.
Yes. They’re both, sadly, gone.
KING: Both gone.
JENNINGS: Yes.
KING: Somerset, Kentucky, for Peter Jennings, hello.
CALLER: Hello, Larry and Peter.
KING: Hi.
JENNINGS: Hello, ma’am.
CALLER: My question, is why are we spending so much money to Iraq to
rebuild it when I assume that their oil fields were supposed to pay
for their rebuilding.
JENNINGS: That’s a very — that’s a — I would say that’s a very good
question, but it’s a question I’ve been asked in a lot of parts in
the country today.
Let me first answer you about the oil fields. The administration,
sadly, has overestimated seriously what the oil fields were going
produce. We were with told that the Iraqi oil industry was brought
onto stream, which they anticipated doing fairly quickly, the oil —
the Iraqi oil industry would pay for a lot of the reconstruction. It
has not turned out like that, and, of course, the sabotage of the oil
lines in Iraq has not helped as well.
But you have asked a question that a lot of people in the country are
going to ask today. I think whether or not the — whether they
support the president or not, if we can send $87 billion for this
year, what might $87 billion do in this country? And I think that
will now become part of the political debate about Iraq.
KING: To Baldwin City, Kansas, hello.
CALLER: Turn it off. Turn it off. Hello.
KING: Hello.
CALLER: Mr. Jennings.
JENNINGS: Yes, ma’am. CALLER: Do you agree with Helen Thomas, as I do
and many of my acquaintances that this is the worst president this
country has ever had?
JENNINGS: No, ma’am. And if I did, I wouldn’t say so.
KING: Did Helen Thomas say that?
JENNINGS: I don’t know that Helen Thomas Did that. But you are — you
are a reminder on one side of the divide, as I’m constantly reminded
daily by people on the other side of the divide, that at times of
great stress, this president and others are the subject of both
profound and deep affection and support and, as we are seeing in the
case of — in your case and others, deep vitriol and resentment as
well. That– that’s…
KING: Goes with the territory. Ocala, Florida, for Peter Jennings.
CALLER: Good evening, gentlemen.
KING: Hi.
CALLER: My question for Peter is as follows: what effect do you think
conservative talk radio shows like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity
have on politics in the news?
JENNINGS: I think they’re two separate questions, if you don’t mind
me saying. I think they have a — first of all, they have a great —
they have an effect. I’m not sure how great an effect it is all the
time. They have an effect on the great sort of sounding blocks or
sounding board which is the American political debate today. I don’t
think they have a huge effect on the news or on the establishment
news particularly.
But we pay attention to talk radio without any question. Certainly we
listen. I don’t listen to Rush every day but I know if something hot
is going on, if you touch into Rush Limbaugh’s audience and to some
extent into Hannity’s now and certainly into Bill O’Reilly
KING: They hate establishment. You’re the establishment.
JENNINGS: Well, I’m not sure they hate the establishment.
KING: Well, hate may be a strong…
JENNINGS: The establishment, we are sometimes — you knows, in some
cases, convenient oxes to gore. But I think there’s no question they
represent an important political constituency in the country.
I think sometimes in the establishment that there are a lot of people
in America who resent the establishment, who resent the elite
universities, who resent the large corporations and with some good
reason this year — as we discovered — and who feel and who have
felt prior to the advent of this sort of a great involvement of talk
radio that they haven’t had place to debate or even vent. And so, is
Rush a deeply serious analyst an commentator? In some respects. Is he
a showman as well? I think the answer is yes. But I’d never argue
that he doesn’t have place on the menu.
KING: They don’t hate big corporations though.
JENNINGS: Some of them do.
KING: Yes. To Ft. Myers, Florida, hello.
CALLER: Yes, Peter.
JENNINGS: Yes, sir.
CALLER: My question for you is, from what I understand, Iraq is only
the size of our state of California. Now, in the United States if we
have a criminal that’s bad, we track him all over the United States
with our police organizations.
And by the way, you look great. I don’t know what you’re doing, but
keep it up.
But anyway, my question is, why the state — size of the state of
California, why have we not been able to catch Saddam Hussein? and is
it because maybe — I hate to say this. Is there a reason that we
don’t? I think we need to catch this guy and I’d like to ask…
KING: Well, we didn’t track Mr. — we tracked Mr. Rudolph for five
years.
JENNINGS: Well, it was really interesting, I was a poll — our latest
poll, which, we did over the weekend, showed, I think, that 62
percent of people think the war on terror terrorism will not be over
until Osama bin Laden is caught and a lot of people think it’s just
as important to catch Saddam Hussein.
I think the difference between Iraq and California, sir, if I may, is
if we were looking for an arch criminal in the state of California,
we would have a great deal more help than we might be getting in
Iraq. And remember that California has not been, if I may say,
traumatized the same way Iraq has been traumatized by all those years
of Saddam Hussein. And one clearly of his assets at the moment, if we
concede that he’s alive and the government does, is that tiny, tiny
doubt in the minds of many Iraqis about whether or not he’ll reappear
again. And if he were to reappear again they were on the wrong side
of the issue, what might be the consequences?
So I think until the United States can show some very significant
victories in a variety of ways, mostly having, I think, to do with
everyday life, then I think he will still have this edge and will
still be more difficult for us to get cooperation.
You know, — you talk to people in the intelligence business and they
will admit quite openly that our capacity for what’s called human
intelligence as opposed to technological or signal intelligence in
Iraq and in the Middle East is not very good. We don’t have enough
Arabic speakers. we don’t have enough people on the ground who have
stayed for a long time. We’re always relying in Iraq on the case of
another party. So the — the other party has to have a vested
interest in our success in order to play the game with us or perhaps
we pay them.
But we — government will tell you this time and again — need to do
vastly better with human intelligence.
KING: As we go to break — and we’ll come back with more phone calls
— Peter Jennings is celebrating his 20th anniversary as the sole
anchor of ABC’s “World News Tonight.” He joined the program in 1978,
five years prior as a…
JENNINGS: You’re making it sound like my obituary. You know that.
KING: … as a co-anchor. No, I’m setting something up, Peter. Here
was his first night as one of the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of anchors. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS: The man you’re referring to went on trial in the Soviet
Union in cases almost certain to further strain Soviet-American
relations. Alexander Ginzburg (ph), and Anatoliy Sharanski (ph) of
the Soviet Unions most prominent dissidents. Ginzberg (ph) is called
with anti-Soviet behavior. Sharanski is charged with treason. Both
men pleaded innocent. The trials are perhaps the most political
important one since the end of the Stalin era.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS: It’s difficult to explain how desperate it is for people.
There’s no light Sarajevo whatsoever. So, what they do is take a
small bottle like this. They fill it up almost to the very top with
water and then put a film of oil on the top. Then on a little piece
of cork, not much bigger than your thumb nail they take a tiny piece
of cloth and light it. That is the lighting in Sarajevo today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Wow.
JENNINGS: I haven’t seen that in a long time.
KING: Kincardine, Ontario for Peter Jennings. Hello.
CALLER: Hi there. Peter, I’m a journalism student here in Canada. I
was wondering what you think the difference is between American
journalism and Canadian journalism?
JENNINGS: I don’t think a great deal. I was impressed the way Larry
is pronouncing Kincardine. I don’t think a huge amount. I don’t think
a huge amount. I mean, volume, for one thing. But the skills are such
as they are I learned fairly early on in Canada, that my dad caught
me apply down here. I don’t think there are any basic differences.
Lot of Canadians have come to work in American journalism. And so
many over the years that I have finally figured I think we come for
the larger canvas and the big adventure. And yet many of the
Canadians have wanted to be foreign correspondents, deciding to go
see the rest of the world on someone else’s money. But in terms of
the actual practicing of journalism, I don’t think there’s a basic
difference.
KING: To Little Rock, Arkansas for Peter Jennings, hello.
CALLER: Hello. Good evening. I would like to know, Mr. Jennings, what
your relationship was like with Bill Clinton when you were down here
following the campaign. And wanted to congratulate you on your
citizenship. And are the rumors about Sheena Easton’s pursuit of you
accurate as well?
Caller: Hello. Good evening. I would like to know, Mr. Jennings, what
your relationship was like with Bill Clinton when you were down here
following the campaign and wanted to congratulate you on your
citizenship. And are the rumors about Sheena Easton’s pursuit of you
accurate as well?
JENNINGS: I’m not sure if I should tell this story.
KING: Go ahead.
JENNINGS: Well once upon a time Sheena Easton said on one of the late
night talk shows — I think it was David Letterman but I may be
wrong, said she wanted to have a baby. I didn’t see this. But she
thought she would like to have it and she would like to have it with
me. All I know is the next day I got a call from a couple of my
bosses who said, if you’re too busy — that’s what I remember. That’s
about as far as the rumors ever went. My wife and I went to the
theater one night and Sheena Easton was in a play. We thought of
going backstage and saying hello.
We decided not to. My relationship with Bill Clinton is like my
relationship with any politician, my relationship with any president.
I have to say I did a couple children’s programs with Bill Clinton
answering children’s questions which I have done a number of times,
and I love doing. I did a couple from the White House. And he was
extraordinarily engaging with the kids. Very wonderful with the
children. So he was — he was a pretty easy guy to be around.
Everyone knows he’s an astonishing campaigner. So is George Bush. He
is an easy person to be with. He engages in an easy manner.
KING: Too early to assess the Clinton presidency?
JENNINGS: No. People continue to miss him in some way and continue to
revile him in other ways. I heard him speak after 9/11. I heard him
speak after 9/11. Total extemporaneous way about the situation in the
world. I was reminded, as I think other people, are of the certain
sense of tragedy about his presidency because god the man was smart.
KING: Ocilla, Georgia, hello.
CALLER: Hello. Good evening, gentlemen.
Could you tell me what you think Wesley Clark’s chances will be if he
decides to enter the presidential race.
JENNINGS: That’s a good question. I must say we were talking a lot
about this today. I was at a — heard him give a talk the other day
and asked him the question about whether or not he was going to get
into the race. Talking about former General Wesley Clark, who
appeared a lot on CNN during the war, former commander of NATO.
KING: Did a lot here.
JENNINGS: From Arkansas among other things. I don’t know how to
answer the question honestly because the contest on the Democratic
side appears so fluid at the moment. But I would be willing to bet
that all of the other presidential want to be’s — that legitimate
sense on the Democratic side have a measure of anxiety about Wesley
Clark getting into this race. Maybe that’s just because he’s the
latest face and he’s the fresher face, and he’s got very strong
opinions. He’s got very strong opinions about President Bush. Very
strong opinions about the war. He has credentials. You know, others
in the race have credentials as well. It’s a hard question to answer.
But I think there’s a measure of anxiety that he will shape the
Democratic contest up in unanticipated ways.
KING: Do you think he’s a sure bid to be a vice presidential
selection?
JENNINGS: I heard — I asked him the other day. I said the book on
you is you’re trying to get the number two spot?
He didn’t take particular offense because he was very polite. But my
sense is that if he gets into the race, he wants the number one spot.
Why would you get into the race to get number two?
I realize that’s an unsophisticated thing from a political analyst
point of view. But I think if he gets in he’s — why should he not
believe he, is at this moment, that he has a shot at the nomination.
Look, there’s still time, as people smarter than I will tell you. And
there is still time for him to raise money. And there is still time
to put an organization. Conventional wisdom is he couldn’t leave it
much longer. I don’t think he will leave it too much longer before he
makes a public announcement.
KING: Back with our remaining moments with Peter Jennings,
celebrating 20 years as the host as the host of ABC’s “World News
Tonight.”
Don’t go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Throttling up three engines to a 104 percent now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Challenger go with throttle up.
JENNINGS: The Space Shuttle Challenger is destroyed just a little
more than one minute after liftoff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A minute fifteen seconds, velocity 2,900 feet per
second, altitude 9…
JENNINGS: All nine astronauts on board are killed.
It is the worst disaster in the history of the American space program
and President Reagan has declared a week of mourning for the seven
astronauts. Five men and two women who lost their lives on their way
to space this morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS: People were marking or being marked with a powder they
called gulau (ph). It didn’t matter who it was. They were only too
happy to smear it on our faces. Happy holy. A real reminder that in
many ways India is the most colorful country on Earth.
Now, we could have done without the dancing. But with the president
(ph) here, we didn’t want to make a bad impression.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Tampa, Florida, for Peter Jennings. What a life. Hello.
CALLER: Yes, sir. Yes, Larry. My question for Peter Jennings is,
regarding Russia, Germany and France, wanting the United States to
relinquish power back to the Iraqi people. All three of these nations
have multibillion dollar oil trade deals. Is this not a conflict of
interest?
JENNINGS: I don’t think it’s necessarily a conflict of interests, but
I certainly think it’s an interest, and why should it not be? We have
an interest in Iraq’s economic development, too, and have had for a
long period of time. The real challenge now — and it was interesting
to hear the French say today that they thought the president’s idea
of internationing (ph) this again and sending overseas troops was a
pretty good idea, which will please the president no end, because
we’ve had this huge major change in policy, with going back and
trying to involve the United Nations, the French and the Germans and
others, so I find nothing wrong with the nation having economic
interests somewhere if their interests are, you know, also peace and
well-being for the people in the country.
KING: London, Ontario. Hello.
CALLER: Yes. Contrary to our prime minister, Peter, the majority of
the Canadian people do support the United States. And I would like to
ask you, Peter, how you would rate Peter Mansbridge, our CBC News
anchor.
JENNINGS: Oh, very accomplished. Peter Mansbridge is the anchor
person of the national news on (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
KING: Tell me about him.
JENNINGS: He was a guy who almost came here. I don’t know him very
well. He’s sort of half a generation at least behind me, maybe a full
generation behind me. He almost came here, as a lot of us did, and
then he decided to stay in Canada. And he’s been doing the national
news in Canada for a very long period of time. I sometimes wonder if
he gets a little frustrated as the rest of us have about not getting
out and about around the world as much as we’d like to.
KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
JENNINGS: Yes, you never lose that entirely. It’s like growing up
(UNINTELLIGIBLE), you know, laddie. But I think he’s a very
accomplished guy. And I think Lloyd Robertson, who has been on the
news on the private network in Canada, which I did 100 years ago, is
also accomplished.
KING: Do the Canadian citizens disagree with their prime minister?
JENNINGS: Oh, many do, indeed.
KING: What about the United States?
JENNINGS: I wouldn’t want to say that Jean Chretien, the Canadian
prime minister, is not afraid of the United States either. But it’s
very hard in many respects being Canadian, though I think — when I
grew up, living next to this huge giant of a country which had such
an enormous influence on the Canadian agenda, always has. I was in
Canada during the blackout here in New York, in the east. And I was
on the Quebec side of the Ottawa river. And you know, the Quebeckers
had power, and people on the other side, Ottawa, all the way up to
Windsor, close to Michigan, didn’t have power. And the debate was
instantly political. Canada was blaming the States; the States were
blaming Canada. It’s inevitable with these two nations, which are
such good allies for so long.
KING: One more call. We have a minute left. Downers Grove, Illinois,
hello.
CALLER: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. It’s an honor to speak to
both of you.
KING: Thank you.
CALLER: Mr. Jennings, one of the most poignant stories I saw you did
— do was on the Armenian genocide, years and years ago. And I often
look at the Web site. What I’m wondering is what you think is the
most important show, the most thought-provoking, heart-wrenching show
you’ve ever done?
JENNINGS: Those are very different. Heart-wrenching and most
important. That was a really important project for us, to do
something on the Turkish massacre of the Armenians. It’s an
impossible question to answer in 20 seconds. I’ve loved doing
programs with kids. Kids have given me — my own very much included
— have given me a window on the world. And they always enable adults
to look over their shoulder, because kids sometimes ask the questions
that we are too embarrassed to ask. I love doing — I have had a long
career as we’ve acknowledged tonight, so I have had a lot of great
experiences.
KING: Thank you, as always, Peter.
JENNINGS: Thanks, really nice to see you.
KING: Peter Jennings, the anchor, senior editor, ABC’s “World News
Tonight,” 20 years and lots more to go. And we’ll be right back and
tell you about tomorrow night. Don’t go away.
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