Moscow Tries Not to Lose Control Over Settlement of Conflict: Azerb.

OFFICIAL MOSCOW TRIES NOT TO LOSE CONTROL OVER SETTLEMENT OF CONFLICT:
AZERBAIJANI POLITOLOGIST

YEREVAN, NOVEMBER 5. ARMINFO. Official Moscow tries not to lose
control over settlement of the conflict, politologist Zadrusht Alizade
told The 525th Newspaper.

He said that Russia tries to postpone Karabakh conflict’s resolution
by all means. It is not a secret that all the conflicts in the South
Caucasus are connected with Russia. Alizade said that irrespective of
Russia’s position in this issue, discussion of the Karabakh problem at
UN General Assembly has no such importance as resolution of the UN GA
are of recommendation nature only. That is why, it would be naive for
one to think that it will bring benefit to Azerbaijan, Alizade said.

He added that in reality the government hereby tries to deceive the
people. He said that only a specific decision by the UN Security
Council on this issue can bring progress in the conflict’s
resolution. However, Azerbaijan should not hope for this body’s
decision in favor of itself, Alizade said. Only Azerbaijan is able to
solve this problem and relevant steps are necessary. He thinks that
first of all it is necessary to establish a professional
army. Finally, Armenia will understand that restoration of military
operations means its defeat. Only in this case peaceful negotiations
may bring positive results, Alizade said.

BAKU: Azerbaijan may be involved in NATO’s rapid reaction operations

Azerbaijan may be involved in NATO’s “rapid reaction operations” – minister

Zerkalo, Baku
6 Nov 04

Azerbaijani Deputy Foreign Minister Araz Azimov has said that the
country may take part in NATO operations as “new challenges require a
flexible and rapid reaction”. Speaking to journalists on the results
of NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer’s visit to Azerbaijan,
Azimov did not rule out that peacekeeping forces may be brought into
the region, if a settlement is found to the Karabakh issue. He also
rejected the OSCE mediators’ criticism of Azerbaijan’s decision to use
the UN General Assembly’s rostrum for discussing the situation in the
territories occupied by Armenia. The following is an excerpt from Rauf
Mirqadirov’s report in Azerbaijani newspaper Zerkalo on 6 November
headlined “USA’s mobile forces may appear in Azerbaijan” and subheaded
“This conclusion could at least be drawn from Deputy Foreign Minister
Araz Azimov’s words”; subheadings have been inserted editorially

Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev and NATO Secretary-General Jaap de
Hoop Scheffer discussed prospects for developing cooperation between
Azerbaijan and NATO at their meeting in Baku yesterday 5 November ,
Turan news agency reported.

Passage omitted: more about meeting; Scheffer’s news conference in
Baku

Commenting on the talks, Azerbaijani Deputy Foreign Minister Araz
Azimov has said that official Baku is ready to develop comprehensive
cooperation with NATO. This was confirmed at talks between Scheffer
and the Azerbaijani leadership today.

Azimov also said that Scheffer’s visit was brief, but very
fruitful. Mr Scheffer arrived in Baku from Yerevan as published,
actually from Tbilisi late on Thursday 4 November evening and left the
Azerbaijani capital on Friday afternoon. Azimov said that Scheffer’s
working day had started at 0800 0400 gmt yesterday. He managed to meet
the Azerbaijani president and the foreign minister and to attend a
sitting of the state commission on cooperation with NATO led by
Azerbaijani First Deputy Prime Minister Yaqub Eyyubov.

Passage omitted: details of talks

Plan for individual partnership with NATO to boost reforms in security
sector

The Individual Partnership Action Plan IPAP topped the agenda of the
talks. Azimov said that NATO was expected to endorse this document in
the near future. “This document was supposed to be endorsed by the
leadership of NATO before Scheffer’s visit to Baku. But some procedure
issues impeded this,” he added. The implementation of this plan will
start following its endorsement, Azimov said. The IPAP will aim at
bringing Azerbaijan’s security services into line with NATO standards.

At the same time, Azerbaijan has already carried out certain
activities to implement this plan. In particular, an interdepartmental
working group has been established to work out Azerbaijan’s foreign
policy and national security concepts as well as the country’s
military doctrine.

Azerbaijan may take part in NATO’s “rapid reaction operations”

Naturally, Azimov was asked about the possibility that foreign
military bases would be deployed in Azerbaijan which is banned by the
recently-adopted law on national security guarantees. At first, Azimov
unequivocally said that this was impossible. But reservations
immediately followed.

For example, peacekeeping forces may be deployed in the region if a
settlement is found to the Karabakh conflict. Azimov also said that in
this case one should not draw specific conclusions from his theoretic
assumptions. “I would like to say that talks on this issue are not
being held. But if need be, the peacekeeping forces can be basically
deployed in the conflict zone by a decision of an international
organization, of which Azerbaijan is a member. At the same time, them
will have a precisely-defined mandate and it would be impossible for
them to act outside this mandate,” Azimov said.

But this is not all. Azimov’s answer to the question about the
possibility that foreign military bases would be deployed in
Azerbaijan was more vague.

He said that Azerbaijan had already joined NATO’s programme concept on
the establishment and development of rapid reaction units. “It means
that Azerbaijan does not rule out the involvement in the alliance’s
rapid reaction operations in the future because new challenges require
a flexible and rapid reaction. In conditions of globalization, the
developments in any crisis require a rapid reaction, and Azerbaijan
may become an active participant in this process,” Azimov added. He
also said that the Azerbaijani armed forces could organize this kind
of units.

OSCE Minsk Group co-chairmen should not speak on behalf of all OSCE
countries

Replying to journalists’ question, Azimov also said that Baku had
rejected criticism by co-chairmen of the OSCE Minsk Group in
connection with future discussions of the situation in occupied
territories by the UN General Assembly.

He said that Azerbaijan had earlier informed the OSCE
chairman-in-office, the UN secretary-general and the co-chairmen of
the OSCE Minsk Group themselves of Armenia’s illegal activities in the
occupied territories of Azerbaijan.

“We demanded that political measures be taken to stop such
activities. But this was not done, and Azerbaijan succeeded in putting
this issue on the UN General Assembly’s agenda. Azerbaijan may propose
a draft resolution or take other measures. In addition, the
co-chairmen can express only their own position, they are not speaking
on behalf of the entire Minsk Group. Turkey, which is also a member of
the OSCE Minsk Group, fully supports Azerbaijan’s position. Despite
the EU countries’ certain position, Germany has abstained in the vote
on this issue. This fact says something as well,” Azimov added.

Azimov said that the co-chairmen were well briefed on the situation in
the occupied territories. This especially applies to Andrzej Kasprzyk,
personal representative of the OSCE chairman-in-office, Azimov
added. He called on the co-chairmen to step up their work and not to
speak on behalf of all the OSCE countries.

At the same time, Azimov expressed bewilderment at the position of
some neighbouring countries which had not supported Azerbaijan during
the discussions of this issue especially as Azerbaijan has constantly
been supporting the fair position of these countries in similar
situations. Although Azimov refused to name the country, but it was
clear that he was referring to Georgia.

BAKU: NATO secretary-general visits Azerbaijan

NATO secretary-general visits Azerbaijan

ANS Radio, Baku
5 Nov 04

NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer has begun an official
visit to Baku, Azerbaijani radio station ANS has reported. It is the
secretary-general’s first visit since NATO cancelled military
exercises in Azerbaijan in September, because Armenian officers were
denied entry to Baku.

Asked about a forthcoming NATO seminar in Baku, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer
said that Armenian MPs should be able to attend the meeting, ANS
reported. “The holding of the Rose-Roth seminar is outside the NATO
secretary-general’s sphere,” Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said. “If the issue
was within the purview of the NATO secretary-general, as previously my
position would not change. My position is that the attendance of any
guests is admissible at this kind of seminar.”

In the morning of 5 November Jaap de Hoop Scheffer paid his respects
at the grave of former Azerbaijani President Heydar Aliyev and
Martyrs’ Avenue, where those killed by Soviet troops in 1990 and some
of the Karabakh war dead are buried. The NATO secretary-general also
met students and professors at Baku State University. Later in the day
he is to hold talks with Foreign Minister Elmar Mammadyarov and
Defence Minister Safar Abiyev and to meet President Ilham Aliyev.

CSTO sets up commission to promote arms trading

CIS-based regional organization sets up commission to promote arms trading

Interfax-AVN military news agency web site
5 Nov 04

MOSCOW

The Collective Security Treaty Organization is setting up a commission
to promote arms trading and military cooperation, the organization’s
Secretary- General Nikolay Bordyuzha told Interfax-Military News
Agency yesterday.

“By creating the commission for military cooperation, we want to step
up contacts in this area. We have plenty of suggestions on
establishing joint ventures and holdings to repair and upgrade Soviet
and Russian-made weapons and military hardware, joint research and
development efforts and programmes aimed at designing certain kinds of
arms,” Bordyuzha said. The commission will operate on a permanent
basis, he said.

[The Collective Security Treaty Organization comprises Armenia,
Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan.]

BAKU: Greek envoy urges Azerbaijan to allow Armenian MPs to NATO sem

Greek envoy urges Azerbaijan to allow Armenian MPs to attend NATO seminar

Assa-Irada
1 Nov 04

Baku, 1 November: The Greek ambassador to Azerbaijan, Mercurios
Karafotias, told a news conference on Monday [1 November] that he
supports the Armenian parliament members’ participation in the “Rose
Roth” seminar of NATO Parliamentary Assembly to be held in Baku on
26-28 November.

Karafotias said that the sides should continuously exchange views on
settling the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict over Nagornyy Karabakh
peacefully.

“Meetings of parliament members and exchanges of views may lead to the
generation of healthy ideas. The event is organized by NATO and any
country can participate in it,” [he added].

Russian Minister Discussed Railway Link via Abkhazia

Civil Georgia, Georgia
Nov. 2, 2004

Russian Minister Discussed Railway Link via Abkhazia

RIA Novosti news agency reported quoting an unnamed source in the
Georgian President’s administration that Russian Transport Minister
Igor Levitin, who visited Tbilisi on November 1, agreed with Georgian
officials over setting up joint governmental groups to work in regards
to `technical aspects’ of restoring the railway link between Russia and
Armenia via Georgia, which lies through breakaway Abkhazia.

On September 10 the railway link between Moscow and the capital of
Georgia’s breakaway Abkhazia was re-opened, triggering protests from
Tbilisi, which insists that the process should be accompanied by the
return of the Georgian internally displaced persons to Abkhazia.

Georgian Prime Minister Zurab Zhvania told reporters after his talks
with the Russian Transport Minister that the issue of the railway
connection was discussed during the meeting, but added that `until the
normalization of situation in Abkhazia talks over restoration of
railway make no sense.’

But Georgian Economy Minister Kakha Bendukidze, who has also met with
the Russian Transport Minister, downplayed Russia’s unilateral decision
to reopen its rail link with Abkhazia by telling reporters on November
1: `OK they [Russians] have resumed the railway connection and what do
you suppose we should do? Shall we bite them for that?’

Russian Transport Minister Igor Levitin said at a news briefing after
his talks with Zurab Zhvania and Kakha Bendukidze on November 1 that
the Georgian officials showed an `understanding’ towards Russia’s
decision to reopen its railway link with Abkhazia. He added that
reopening of the route `should not lead to a worsening of relations’
between the two countries.

Armenia also insists on reopening of the rail route via Abkhazia, which
will enable landlocked Armenia to restore its railway connection with
its strategic partner, Russia. Armenian President Robert Kocharian
pushed this issue during recent talks with the Georgian leadership
during his visit to Tbilisi in late October.

On March 7, 2003 Russian President Vladimir Putin and Georgia’s
ex-President Eduard Shevardnadze signed an agreement in Sochi
envisaging a `synchronization’ of the two processes – the return of the
internally displaced persons to Abkhazia’s westernmost Gali region and
the resumption of the railway connection. The two presidents also
agreed to set up two separate bilateral governmental commissions to
work over these issues. However, the commissions failed to take off.

NATO not to create dividing lines in Caucasus, alliance chief says

NATO not to create dividing lines in Caucasus, alliance chief says

Mediamax news agency, Yerevan
1 Nov 04

NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, who is to visit the
South Caucasus countries in early November, has said that the aim of
the visit is to encourage the countries of the region to make the most
of NATO’s partnership programmes. In an exclusive interview with
Armenian Mediamax news agency ahead of the visit, Scheffer said that
NATO’s policy of enlargement aimed to extend the benefits of stability
and security, which alliance members enjoy, to new member
states. Scheffer stressed that “NATO enlargement is designed to break
down dividing lines rather than create them”. He also denied that
friction between Turkey and Armenia could impede Yerevan’s cooperation
with NATO. The following is the text of the interview in English by
Armenian news agency Mediamax headlined “The alliance wishes to deepen
its cooperation with Armenia” on 1 November; subheadings have been
inserted editorially:

NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer will arrive in Yerevan on
5 November. Ahead of the visit he gave an exclusive interview to
Mediamax news agency.

South Caucasus states urged to make most of NATO programmes

[Mediamax correspondent] Mr Secretary-General, at the summit in
Istanbul [28-29 June 2004] the South Caucasus was officially described
as a priority region for NATO. What specific changes in the alliance’s
policy in relation to Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan are you going to
present during your visit to the region?

[Jaap de Hoop Scheffer] At the Istanbul Summit, allies reaffirmed
their commitment to an enhanced, closer and more individualized
relationship with NATO’s partners from the South Caucasus. We want to
work with all of the countries of the region on the basis of their
priorities. This will be my main message.

In order to support this policy, allied leaders took two important
decisions. The first was to appoint one liaison officer for the
Caucasus, as well as one for Central Asia. The second decision was to
agree on the appointment of the secretary-general’s special
representative for the two regions, who would be responsible for
establishing high-level working contacts with regional leaders in
order to support NATO’s objectives. Robert Simmons, who I nominated
for this post, will accompany me during my visit.

This visit will be an opportunity to encourage the three countries to
make the most of the partnership instruments which are of most
relevance for them – such as the Planning and Review Process (PARP)
which provides for consultations on defence reform issues and
establishing the ability for partner armed forces to work with NATO
armed forces; the Individual Partnership Action Plan (IPAP) which will
provide a framework for individual relations with NATO; and the new
Partnership Action Plan on Defence Institution Building which is
designed to help build up the institutions which are critical in any
democratic society to successfully decide upon and implement defence
policy.

Partnership with NATO requires democratic reforms

[Correspondent] In November 2002, your predecessor at this post, Lord
Robertson, told our agency that “the partners willing to take
advantage of a more individual relationship with NATO would have to be
able to do the following: they would have to demonstrate true and
sustained determination to walk the path of democratic transformation
and pursue a foreign and security policy to support it”. Do you think
the South Caucasus countries demonstrate the abovementioned efforts?

[Scheffer] In 2002, we offered all partners the opportunity to engage
with the alliance in Individual Partnership Action Plans. This new
mechanism allows willing partners to develop a more individualized
relations with the alliance focused on reform.

Of course, the main emphasis is put on defence reform, where NATO has
special expertise to offer. NATO is an alliance based on values
including the commitment to democratic and economic reform,
fundamental freedoms and the rule of law. To be successful, defence
and other critical reforms must be underpinned by these values. We
know that the path of reform is a long and difficult one, and this is
why allies are ready to assist the countries of the region. The fact
that all three South Caucasus countries have engaged in an IPAP is an
important sign that they are willing to look at all aspects of
reform. Genuine efforts to meet the objectives which they define for
themselves will now be needed in order for our cooperation to move
ahead.

NATO differentiates between South Caucasus and Central Asia

[Correspondent] Don’t you think that NATO is not quite right to
consider the regions of the South Caucasus and Central Asia in the
same plane? Taking into account serious differences between these
regions, especially different problems in the security sphere, do you
think an individualized approach to each of these regions will be more
effective?

[Scheffer] The fact that we consider both regions as strategically
important does not mean that we fail to differentiate between
them. Indeed, even if they share some common characteristics and
legacies, it is obvious that they are very different. Our new
cooperation mechanisms give us the opportunity to build up
relationships tailored to the specific needs of the individual
countries, allowing us to take into account the diversity between
regions and the countries in each of the regions.

Relations with Russia no obstacle to Armenia’s cooperation with NATO

[Correspondent] Many people think that sooner or later Armenia will
have to choose between maintaining close ties with Russia and further
integration into NATO. There is another opinion as well: Armenia can
become kind of a “bridge” between Russia and NATO. Which of these two
positions is closer to you?

[Scheffer] The alliance wishes to deepen its cooperation with
Armenia. While it is perhaps the case that in the past this country
has not pursued its partnership with the alliance at the same pace as
the other two South Caucasus countries, we see clear signs now that
Yerevan is committed to deepening our relations, and we are pleased to
engage with Armenia. For example, Armenia has just accredited an
ambassador in Brussels whose sole responsibility will be related with
NATO. In addition, Armenia has declared its intention to participate
in the IPAP process, which will provide the critical framework for
pursuing these enhanced relations on the issues that the country
chooses.

Armenia does indeed enjoy a good relationship with the Russian
Federation, but that should not in any way impede the development of
its relations with NATO. We have worked successfully with Russia over
the last few years to overcome lingering suspicions, and now cooperate
on many practical issues through the NATO-Russia Council.

Armenia is a proof that a country can maintain a close relationship
with Russia and at the same time be a very active partner of
NATO. Allies, Russia and the Caucasus states have all a strong
interest in regional stability. All our countries face the same
threats from terrorists who do not respect borders, from proliferation
and from failed states. Our capacity to address these new threats will
depend on our ability to bridge old dividing lines and avoid any sense
of competition. The partnership between NATO and Russia is driven by
this understanding. And because it has strong links with both Russia
and the West, Armenia can not only benefit from this relation but also
has a strong interest in supporting it.

Turkey not averse to Armenia-NATO cooperation

[Correspondent] Unsettled Armenian-Turkish relations negatively affect
Armenia-NATO cooperation. It is clear that NATO’s headquarters in
Brussels cannot affect the foreign policy of its
members. Nevertheless, does the existence of this problem cause your
concern?

[Scheffer] You are correct that NATO does not react to the policies of
its member states. Nevertheless, I would like to stress that Turkey
has never been in the way of cooperation between Armenia and NATO, and
that many high-level meetings between leaders of Turkey and Armenia
have taken place on the margins of meetings of the Euro-Atlantic
Partnership Council. This is for me an illustration that the
partnership is a very helpful framework through which to maintain
dialogue.

NATO not to create dividing lines in Caucasus

[Correspondent] Armenian officials say that if Georgia and Azerbaijan
become NATO members and Armenia does not, this will obviously bring
about new dividing lines in the Caucasus. Do you see such a danger?

[Scheffer] It is difficult to answer a question based on a
hypothetical scenario. NATO’s policy of enlargement is driven by the
desire to extend the benefits of stability and security, which
alliance members enjoy, to new member states. It is not aimed against
any other countries, but simply at ensuring the security and stability
of its members. While it is a fundamental right of every country to
choose its own security arrangements, NATO enlargement is designed to
break down dividing lines rather than create them. This is a
fundamental principle of enlargement which will not change in the
future.

[Correspondent] Do you agree with the point of view that NATO is ready
to go in its relations with Armenia as far as Armenia itself is ready
to?

[Scheffer] This is indeed the modus operandi of the Euro-Atlantic
Partnership. Partnership for Peace programs are open to all partners
and it is for them to decide the extent to which they want to
cooperate and where they wish to focus their cooperation.

Let me give you an example. In 1994, allies opened to partners the
Planning and Review Process, a very important mechanism to provide
guidance on how to make troops interoperable with NATO. For many
years, it was not a priority for Armenia to contribute to NATO-led
operations, and it did not therefore participate in the PARP. Two
years ago, the Armenian authorities decided that they wanted to have
troops able to join international operations and Armenia joined the
PARP. Today, Armenia is actively participating in the PARP and
Armenian soldiers have joined troops of some 35 other nations in the
NATO-led operation in Kosovo.

I will add that following its recent decision to develop an IPAP,
Armenia is using all available partnership mechanisms. This is a
perfect illustration that there is only one prerequisite for a partner
to deepen its cooperation with the alliance: its own willingness to do
so.

Experts discuss prospects for peace in former Soviet republics

The Michigan Daily, MI
25 Oct. 2004

Experts discuss prospects for peace in former Soviet republics

Tofik Zulfugarov, Azerbaijani ambassador to the United States, speaks
before an assembly of diplomats during a conference on foreign policy
challenges in the southern Caucusus, held at the University’s Alumni
Center on Saturday. (PETER SCHOTTENFELS/Daily)

By Leah Gutman, Daily Staff Reporter

Too often, myths perpetuated about foreign conflict mediation have
actually delayed swift resolutions, Wesleyan University government
professor Arman Grigorian said.

More than 35 professors and diplomats of the United States and other
nations attended the four-day, University-hosted International Armenian
Conference over the weekend. They examined the political history of the
Southern Caucasus, as well as the current state of strife there, to
discuss new approaches for peace in the area.

The Southern Caucasus — a part of the former Soviet Union north of the
Middle East — consists of Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia.

On the conference’s third day, during a panel on conflict resolution in
the Southern Caucasus, Grigorian warned against resolutions to dilemmas
that require many intermediary parties.

An issue of much contention, Grigorian pointed toward American
involvement in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict in Armenia as an example
of third-party mediation that has been largely unsuccessful.

The Nagorno-Karabakh conflict began in 1988 in a clash over Soviet
territory between Armenians and Azerbaijanis. By the fall of the Soviet
Union in 1991, full-blown war had erupted in the region. Bloodshed
eventually ceased in 1994, yet analysts say its consequences are
strongly felt between the two parties today and political settlements
have yet to be reached.

Some, like Grigorian, feel that U.S. mediation efforts in conflicts in
the Caucasus have only made matters worse. He said the United States
and Russia, two countries with different interests, have competed in
the Caucasus instead of trying to help the region.

“It’s easy to see me as favoring Russian mediation — perhaps because
I’m Armenian and Armenians tend to be pro-Russia — but I don’t care
which party (is given the upper hand) as long as they’re seriously
interested in finding a solution,” Grigorian said.

LSA senior Steve Jebinak, who attended the conference on Saturday and
is researching the region, expressed his interest in Armenian foreign
and state relations. “I’m investigating how regions that have broken
away (from their original country) do function as states, though
they’re not recognized diplomatically.” Armenia declared its
independence from the collapsing Soviet Union in 1991.

Tom de Waal, Caucasus editor and project coordinator of the Institute
for War and Peace Reporting, closed the panel by suggesting that the
weight of discontent among the people of the Southern Caucasus lies not
so much in the conflict itself, but in the way the conflict is
perceived.

“What’s in the mind is often the biggest obstacle to the resolution of
these conflicts,” Waal said. “The differences are not that great; it’s
the perceptions of conflicts which extenuates those differences.”

Waal said he hopes that in the coming years, Armenians, Azerbaijanis
and Georgians will come to regard their shared past as a source of
unity.

Nino Burjanadze: Widening Of Armenian-Georgian Relations Results Fro

NINO BURJANADZE: WIDENING OF ARMENIAN-GEORGIAN RELATIONS RESULTS FROM
REGIONAL INTERESTS

Azg/am
26 Oct 04

During his three-day visit to the Georgian capital Pres. Robert
Kocharian met with the PM Zurab Zhvania and chairwoman of the
parliament Nino Burjanadze, strolled through Old Tbilisi, took part
in celebrations of the day of Tbilisi, Tbilisoba, lay a wreath at
the monument of fighters for Georgiaâ~@~Ys unity.

Bilateral economic issues were discussed with prime minister
Zurab Zhvania during which the sides welcomed the creation of
Armenia-Georgian Business Association.

Chairwoman of Georgian parliament Nino Burjanadze said that
Armenian-Georgian relations are important not only for the two states
but also for the whole region.

Burjanadze noted that the unsettled conflicts in Abkhazia and South
Ossetia as well as hitches in Georgian-Russian relations are the
painful issues in Georgia.

The issue of Armenian-Georgian borderâ~@~Ys delimitation and
demarcation was also discussed at the meeting. Pres. Kocharian
repeated what he said at the press conference with Pres. Saakashvili
that Armenia is ready to begin works, “there will be no obstacles
from the Armenian side” and expressed hope that Armenian-Georgian
border will be demarked and delimited by the first half of 2005.

The Georgia-Turkish border has already undergone specification and the
demarcation and delimitation of borders with Russia and Azerbaijan
are in process now. Robert Kocharian reminded Nino Burjanadze that
the place of the Georgian representative at the Armenian-Georgian
Commission on Border Specification is vacant. Earlier that day
Pres. Saakashvili noted half in jest that neither Armenia nor Georgia
had land pretences in the last 2000 years.

P.S. Kocharian and Saakashvili visited ex-president Eduard Shevardnadze
on October 23 and offered condolences because of his wifeâ~@~Ys
death. The same day the security found a sniperâ~@~Ys rifle and AK-74
submachine gun at the Music Hall Ajara in Tbilisi where presidents were
heading to listen to jazz. It was found at the Hall directorâ~@~Ys
neighboring room. The Ministry of National Security of Georgia
refrains stating that the weapons were designed for an attempt on
Kocharianâ~@~Ys or Saakashviliâ~@~Ys life. Despite everything,
presidents visited the Music Hall.

A bomb was found at the monument of fighters for Georgiaâ~@~Ys unity
few days before Pres. Kocharianâ~@~Ys visit. He laid a wreath at
the monument on October 23.

By Tatoul Hakobian and Aghavni Harutyunian from Tbilisi

–Boundary_(ID_tXfh5VNCjnxFmeyqo1L90w)–

Paroles de victimes de genocides: l’oubli acheve travail du Bourreau

Agence France Presse
23 octobre 2004 samedi 5:13 PM GMT

Paroles de victimes de génocides: “l’oubli achève le travail du
bourreau” (REPORTAGE)

Par Frédéric HAPPE

VILLEURBANNE

Neuf témoins issus de groupes ethniques ayant subi un génocide sont
venus expliquer l’importance de la mémoire et leur besoin de
réparation, lors d’un forum samedi à Villeurbanne.

Cette rencontre, organisée par le collectif d’associations
Reconnaissance, qui milite pour la mémoire et la prévention des
génocides et des crimes contre l’humanité, regroupait des
représentants des peuples aborigène, africain, arménien, cambodgien,
juif, rwandais, tibétain, tzigane et ukrainien.

“En l’absence de reconnaissance du génocide, surtout par les
bourreaux, la victime ne peut reconquérir l’estime de soi, la
confiance en soi et elle s’enferme dans la honte et le mépris”, a
expliqué Jules Mardirossian, président du Centre d’études, de
documentation et d’informations arméniennes (CEDIA).

Pour Yves Ternon, historien spécialiste des génocides, “l’oubli
achève le travail du bourreau”, le silence entourant ces tragédies
équivalant à une deuxième mort pour les victimes et un deuxième deuil
pour leur peuple, a-t-il ajouté.

Les témoignages étaient très variés dans leur forme et leur contenu,
allant d’exposés académiques, sur la famine de 1933 en Ukraine par
exemple, à des discours quasi-politiques, comme celui des
représentants africains venus témoigner des séquelles de l’idéologie
coloniale.

Mais ce sont les récits plus personnels qui ont touché l’audience.

Tuok Cheam, Cambodgien réfugié en France depuis plus de 20 ans, a
raconté comment à 12 ans les Khmers Rouges l’ont expulsé, lui et sa
famille, de Phnom Penh pour partir construire un village au milieu de
la jungle, les “disparitions” dans son entourage proche, les travaux
forcés, la sous-alimentation organisée, alors que la terre était si
généreuse.

raconte-moi les massacres

Il vit depuis lors avec le souvenir de son père qu’il n’a pu veiller
quand il était mourrant. “Je croyais que le temps ferait disparaître
tout ça. Mais ce manque, la haine et le dégoût ne font que
s’amplifier avec le temps”, a-t-il assuré.

Claire Mouradian, historienne du génocide arménien de 1915, s’est
rappelée que les récits des massacres turcs relatés par ses
grand-parents remplaçaient “les contes et légendes qu’on raconte aux
enfants. Je disais à ma grand-mère +Raconte-moi les massacres,
grand-mère+”, s’est-elle souvenue.

Yolande Mukagasana, une Tutsie qui a perdu mari et enfants lors des
massacres par les Hutus au Rwanda en 1994, et qui n’a elle-même
survécu que grce à une jeune femme qui l’a cachée sous son évier
pendant 11 jours, a souligné l’absence de remise en cause des
ex-puissances coloniales, notamment la France, dans ces événements.

“Quand j’étais à l’école, les maîtres racontaient des récits sur la
cruauté des Tutsis et ensuite me faisaient lever avec l’autre fille
tutsie de la classe pour qu’on nous observent et qu’on apprenne à
reconnaître les Tutsis, en nous touchant les cheveux par exemple”,
a-t-elle raconté.

Tous les groupes ethniques ont formulé à la fin du Forum une liste de
revendications, dont un comité de suivi sera chargé de surveiller le
cheminement auprès des grandes organisations internationales.