Author: Badalian Vardan

PRESS RELEASE
A.G.B.U. Alex & Marie Manoogian School
Lawrence Technological University
Contact: John Miskelly or Carolyn Assarian
Phone: (313) 982-1400
Unique Educational Partnership Begins Between A.G.B.U. Alex & Marie
Manoogian School and Lawrence Technological University
1/25/05
SOUTHFIELD, MI – At the A.G.B.U. Alex & Marie Manoogian School in
Southfield, an exciting partnership was officially formed as
administrators from the Manoogian School and Lawrence Technological
University participated in a signing ceremony (photo 1 attached). Titled
INSPIRE (Inspiring and Nurturing Students – A Partnership for Innovative
and Rewarding Education), the new program outlined in the signed
agreement offers Manoogian School seniors the opportunity to take
courses at Lawrence Tech for college credit.
In his remarks at the ceremony, Dr. Charles Chambers, president of
Lawrence Technological University, recalled a previous discussion with
Manoogian School founder Alex Manoogian. Dr. Chambers said, `(Manoogian)
believed in educational opportunities for young people,’ and he believes
the INSPIRE program follows the same lines Manoogian had intended for
the school. Dr. Chambers encouraged Manoogian students to apply for the
program in the future.
Dr. Nadya Sarafian, principal of Manoogian School, urged students to
take advantage of the chance to take courses at such an esteemed
university.
The ceremony also included the introduction of Manoogian’s three INSPIRE
students, who have already begun classes at Lawrence Tech: Vatche
Bassmagian, Avak Kahramanian and Mihai Untea. They were presented with
certificates and Lawrence Tech sweatshirts by Dr. Chambers.
In addition to Drs. Chambers and Sarafian, signing the agreement were
Dr. Lewis Walker, executive vice-president and provost, Lawrence
Technological University, Hosep Torossian, vice-principal, and Dr.
Richard Marburger, chair of the board of education, Manoogian School.
Also in attendance were several Lawrence Tech faculty members and staff;
Manoogian School board members, PTO members, parents, friends, faculty
and staff; and representatives from the Mayor of Southfield’s office and
Central Michigan University’s Charter Schools Office.
The Manoogian School is located in Southfield, Michigan. Established in
1969, the school was chartered by Central Michigan University in 1995.
Its curriculum follows the Michigan State Board of Education guidelines
for all schools, in addition to emphasizing the study of the Armenian
language, culture, history and arts.
Lawrence Technological University, also located in Southfield, is a
private university with a reputation for excellence. It boasts a
well-respected faculty in the fields of engineering, architecture and
design, arts and sciences, and management.
(1) Signing Ceremony Photo: Administrators from Manoogian School and
Lawrence Tech University sign the agreement outlining the new IGNITE
partnership, which allows Manoogian students to take college courses at
Lawrence Tech for college credit.
(2) INSPIRE Students Photo: Pictured with Dr. Nadya Sarafian, principal
of Manoogian School, and Dr. Charles Chambers, president of Lawrence
Tech University, are the three Manoogian students taking part in the
INSPIRE program: Vatche Bassmagian, Mihai Untea, and Avak Kahramanian.
Contact: John Miskelly or Carolyn Assarian
Phone: (313) 982-1400

Think-tank predicts boost in Azeri-Iranian economic relations
Zerkalo, Baku
25 Jan 05

Excerpt from CGR analytical group report by Azerbaijani newspaper
Zerkalo on 25 January entitled “Next stage of dialogue between Baku
and Tehran”, subheaded “Cooperation between Azerbaijan and Iran plays
pivotal role in maintaining balance of forces in the region”
Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev started his official visit to the
Islamic Republic of Iran yesterday [24 January]. This visit should be
considered primarily as the next stage in the dynamic development that
has been observed in recent months in the Azerbaijani-Iranian
dialogue.
As the authors of this article have written in one of their previous
reports, cooperation between Azerbaijan and Iran plays a leading role
in maintaining the balance of forces between the power centres of the
South Caucasus, and is consequently of great significance for the
security of Azerbaijan and the whole region.
We would like to concentrate on another important component of
bilateral cooperation between Azerbaijan and Iran – namely, the
possibilities for transit alternatives and transport security for
Azerbaijan.
Azerbaijan has repeatedly come under pressure from neighbouring states
on the issue of importing oil and its transport via our territory and
access to world markets.
Problems triggered by Russia in the exploitation of the northern
[Baku-Novorossiysk] oil pipeline were a real headache for Azerbaijan
before the commissioning of the Baku-Supsa oil pipeline. [Passage
omitted]
Nevertheless, we should also bear in mind that we are in a region
where the interests of various force centres clash. Our country’s very
position at the point of contact of the interests of power centres
restricts its movements and compels us to take heed of the interests
of the opposing side in the course of cooperation with neighbouring
states. First of all there is the US factor, which has had an
influence on Azerbaijan’s relations with Iran. However, if we pay heed
to the fact that the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline is nearing
completion, that Azerbaijan is successfully continuing integration
into the west and is a partner in the antiterror coalition, led by the
USA along with Russia and the European Union, and that a strengthening
of our southern neighbour is being observed, then it is easy to
imagine that a favourable situation for this highly important
cooperation with Iran in transport has been established.
Activities in this direction are being carried out in principle. As
Zerkalo newspaper reported, the sixth session of the
Azerbaijani-Iranian intergovernmental commission on cooperation in
economic, trade and humanitarian fields was held in Tehran on 8-9
January 2005. A memorandum, signed at the end of the session of the
commission, envisaged the development of a feasibility study of a
draft project for the construction of an Alat-Astara road. The
document also stipulated the drafting of projects for the construction
of a Qazvin-Rasht-Astara (Iran)-Astara (Azerbaijan) railway. If these
projects are successfully implemented, then the reconstruction of the
Alat-Astara road, the implementation of the Qazvin-Rasht-Astara
(Iran)-Astara (Azerbaijan) railway, and the establishment of a single
railway junction between Azerbaijan and Iran will be conducive to the
realization of the North-South transport corridor by boosting railway
transportation between Europe and South Asia. [Passage omitted]
However, all this does not mean that the important Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan
project will be put back. On the contrary, it will remain the main
export channel for Azerbaijani oil, and the Iranian route will play a
supporting role in force majeure circumstances. Such a position will
take into consideration both geopolitical factors, in particular, the
level and essence of US-Iranian relations. Thus, a marked
rapprochement and a striving for the implementation of fully-fledged
cooperation by both the Iranian and Azerbaijani sides is of
significance not only for political and economic relations between the
two countries but also for the resolution of the Armenian-Azerbaijani
conflict, securing energy and transit security for Azerbaijan, and
finally, for a strategy of maintaining a balance of forces in the
South Caucasus.

PERMANENT MISSION OF ARMENIA TO THE UNITED NATIONS
Contact: Dziunik AGHAJANIAN
Minister-Counsellor
Deputy Permanent Representative
119 East 36th Street, New York, NY 10016, USA
Tel: 1-212-686-9079
Fax: 1-212-686-3934
Mobile: 1-917-940-5665
STATEMENT
by H.E. Mr. Vartan Oskanian
Minister of Foreign Affairs of Armenia
to the 28th Special Session
of the UN General Assembly
Mr. President
Your Excellencies
Dear Friends,
On behalf of the people and government of Armenia, and as a descendant of
genocide survivors, I feel compelled to be here today, to join other
survivors and descendants, of both victims and perpetrators, to take part in
this commemoration. I am also duty-bound to urge us all to confront more
effectively the threat of genocide anywhere, at any time, regardless of cost
and political discomfort.
The liberation of Auschwitz is, indeed, cause for commemorative celebration.
However, in this commemoration, with each uttering of the name Auschwitz, we
are forced to reflect: to look back, look around, look deep, look at the
other, but also look inward, at ourselves.
After 9/11 and reacting to the unusually high number of victims of a
singular event, an editorialist proclaimed “We are all Americans”. Sympathy,
solidarity, anxiety, and indignation bound us together. How much more
intense our feelings about Auschwitz and the singularity of its horror, its
synonymity with the technology of death-making, its eerily ordinary
commitment to efficiency, to pragmatic, effective, result-oriented
administration.
After Auschwitz, we are all Jews, we are all Gypsies, we are all unfit,
deviant and undesirable, for someone, somewhere. After Auschwitz, the
conscience of man cannot remain the same. Man’s inhumanity to men, to women,
to children, and to the elderly, is no longer a concept in search of a name,
an image, a description. Auschwitz lends its malefic aura to all the
Auschwitzes of history, our collective history, both before and after.
In the 20th century alone, with its 15 genocides, the victims have their own
names for places of infamy. What the French call ‘les lieux infames de
memoire’ are everywhere. Places of horror, slaughter, of massacre, of the
indiscriminate killing of all those who have belonged to a segment, a
category, an ethnic group, a race or a religion. For Armenians, it is the
desert of Deir-El-Zor, for Cambodians they are the killing fields, for the
children of the 21st century, it is Darfur. For the Jews and Poles and for a
whole generation of us growing up after The War, it is Auschwitz.
Mr. President,
Just as we all were, or are, or might be victims, we all were or are or
might also be guilty. It is only through the engagement of those who have
seen and done the unimaginable, and who have had the dignity, the grace, the
sensitivity, the decency and courage to acknowledge wrongdoing, that we may
achieve the requisite collective political will and its expression.
This is not as naïve, unrealistic, idealistic as some might wish to label
it, perhaps in order to dismiss it. Genocide is not about individuals who
act insanely, do evil, commit crimes, perpetrate irrevocable wrongs.
Genocide is the undertaking of a state apparatus, which must, by definition,
act coherently, pragmatically, with structure and organization.
Thus, this is not a plea to reform human beings, but an appeal to take
conscious account of the role of our national institutions and international
institutions must play to insure that no one can expect to enjoy impunity.
After Auschwitz one would expect that no one any longer has a right to turn
a blind eye or a deaf ear. As an Armenian, I know that a blind eye, a deaf
ear and a muted tongue perpetuate the wounds. It is a memory of suffering
unrelieved by strong condemnation and unequivocal recognition. The catharsis
that the victims deserve, which societies require in order to heal and move
forward together, obligates us here at the UN, and in the international
community, to be witness, to call things by their name, to remove the veil
of obfuscation, of double standards, of political expediency.
Mr. Presidents,
Following the Tsunami-provoked disaster, we have become painfully aware of a
paradox. On the one hand, multilateral assistance efforts were massive,
swift, generous and without discrimination. But, when compared and
contrasted with today’s other major tragedy, in Africa, it is plain that for
Darfur, formal and ritual condemnation has not been followed by any
dissuasive action against the perpetrators.
The difference with the Tsunami, of course, was that there were no
perpetrators. No one wielded the sword, pulled the trigger or pushed the
button that released the gas.
Recognizing the victims and acknowledging them is also to recognize that
there are perpetrators. But this is absolutely not the same as actually
naming them, shaming them, dissuading or warning them, isolating or
punishing them.
If these observations signal a certain naiveté that overlooks the enduring
structures of our political and security interests, then, on this occasion,
when we have gathered to commemorate this horrible event, then allow me this
one question: if not here and now, then where and when?
Mr. President,
The Spanish-American philosopher George Santayana, who has been quoted here,
admonished us to remember the past, or be condemned to repeat it. This
admonition has significance for me personally, because the destruction of my
people, whose fate in some way impinged upon the fate of the Jews of Europe,
should have been viewed more widely seen as a warning of things to come.
Jews and Armenians are linked forever by Hitler. Who, after all, speaks
today of the annihilation of the Armenians? said Adolf Hitler, days before
he entered Poland.
Hitler’s cynical remembrance of Armenians is prominently displayed in the
Holocaust Memorial in Washington because it is profound commentary about the
crucial role of third parties in genocide prevention and remembrance.
Genocide is the manifestation of the break in the covenant that governments
have with their peoples. Therefore, it is third parties who become crucial
actors in genocide prevention, humanitarian assistance and genocide
remembrance.
We are commemorating today, because the Soviet troops marched into Auschwitz
60 years ago. I am here today because the Arabs provided sanctuary to
Armenian deportees 90 years ago.
Third parties, indeed, can make the difference between life and death. Their
rejection of the behaviors and policies which are neither in anyone’s
national interest nor in humanity’s international interest, is of immense
moral and political value.
What neighbors, well-wishers, the international community can’t accomplish,
is the transcending and reconciling which the parties must do for
themselves. The victims, first, must exhibit the dignity, capacity and
willingness to move on, and the perpetrators, first and last, must summon
the deep force of humanity and goodness and must overcome the memory of the
inner evil which had already prevailed, and must renounce the deed, its
intent, its consequences, its architects and executors.
Auschwitz signifies the worst of hate, of indifference, of dehumanization.
Remembrance of Auschwitz and its purpose, however abhorrent, is a vital step
to making real the phrase “Never Again”.
Thank you.

30 REPATRIATES GO TO ISRAEL FROM ARMENIA EACH YEAR
YEREVAN, JANUARY 22. ARMINFO. The outflow of Jewish repatriates from
Armenia to Israel has decreased in the last years, says the head of
the Jewish community of Armenia Rimma Varzhapetyan.
If earlier an average of 100 Jewish repatriates left Armenia each year
(except for the 90s when the outflow was at its peak) now this figure
is 30 people a year. 5 families are getting ready for repatriation
now. 800-1,000 people having repatriation right live in Armenia at
present but not all of them are ethnic Jews. Varzhapetyan explains
that repatriation right is given to people who are Jews in the fourth
paternal generation and in all maternal generations. There are also
special educational programs for schoolchildren and students.
Commenting on the decision of Sohnut to slash 1/3 of the budgets of
its CIS offices because of sharp decline in repatriation from the
former USSR Varzhapetyan says that this decision will hardly concern
Armenia. The question is about big offices.
To remind, over 200,000 Jewish repatriates went to Israel from the
former Soviet Union in the 90s against only 11,000 ones in 2004.
From: Emil Lazarian | Ararat NewsPress

ARKA News Agency, Armenia
Jan 21 2005
New UNICEF representative takes over in Armenia
Flu illnesses cases not registered in Armenia in Jan 2005
2005 to be a year of resistance to external challenges for Armenia –
RA NA Deputy
S.Chzmachian: 2004 was unexampled successful for RA banking system
*********************************************************************
NEW UNICEF REPRESENTATIVE TAKES OVER IN ARMENIA
YEREVAN, January 21. /ARKA/. Mr. Sheldon Yett, a U.S. citizen is
appointed new UNICEF Representative in Armenia, according to the
UNICEF Office in Armenia. The new UNICEF Representative has a 12-year
experience in the field of international development and has been
working iwith UNICEF headquarters in New York as a coordinator of
humanitarian issues and has also served in Somalia, Burundi and
Kosovo, as well as in other field duty stations.
The new UNICEF representative in Armenia has already met with the RA
Foreign Minister Vardan Oskanian, and looks forward to working with
the Government of Armenia and other counterparts. L.V.-0–
*********************************************************************
FLU ILLNESSES CASES NOT REGISTERED IN ARMENIA IN JAN 2005
YEREVAN, January 21. /ARKA/. Flu illnesses cases were not registered
in Armenia in Jan 2005, Chief Doctor of Infection Clinics `Nork’ Ara
Asoyan stated today. According to him, at the moment 32 people are at
the hospital with respiratory diseases, however none of them has flu.
He added that there were no registered cases of botulism in 2005.
L.D. -0 –
*********************************************************************
2005 TO BE A YEAR OF RESISTANCE TO EXTERNAL CHALLENGES FOR ARMENIA –
RA NA DEPUTY
YEREVAN, January 21. /ARKA/. 2005 will be a year of resistance to
numerous external challenges for Armenia, as stated historian Hamlet
Harutunyan, the RA NA deputy in the National Press Club today.
According to him, the political forces of the country should
consolidate around the national problems, in particular, the Karabakh
issue. The statement of the US Assistant Secretary of State Elizabeth
Jones, he considers in the context of USA testing the interpolitical
stability in the country. Such checkups, according to him, can be
expected on the part of Russia as well. `They cannot thrust the
unfavorable settlement of the Karabakh conflict on us, if we come out
as one’, noted the deputy. At that, Harutunyan added that the problem
of change of power will not be pressing this year, as the opposition
has missed the opportunity which could be carried out in 2004. L.V.
-0 –
*********************************************************************
S.CHZMACHIAN: 2004 WAS UNEXAMPLED SUCCESSFUL FOR RA BANKING SYSTEM
Exclusive Interview of Samvel CHZMACHIAN, the Chairman Armenian Banks
Union to ARKA News Agency
ARKA – What was 2004 for RA banking system?
S.Chzmachian – 2004 was unexampled successful for RA banking system.
Thus, the assets of the system grew by 27.1% and achieved 365 billion
AMD and it is very good indicator. The credits grew by 39.6% and made
more than 130 billion AMD, total authorized capital grew by 6.7% and
stood at 39.2 billion AMD. Total capital of the banks grew by 26.5%
and achieved more than 63 billion AMD. Profit of the banks exceeded
10 billion AMD, having increased by 58.6%. Unfortunately not all the
banks can independentely overcome normative level on total capital in
$5 million by July 1, 2005. They now conduct negotiations with
investors and in favourable result they will be able to attract new
shareholders and remain in banking field.
ARKA – How do you estimate CB decision to increase the normative on
total capital for newly creating banks from $5 million to $10
million? What do you think, will the given normative change for
acting banks?
S.Chzmachian – Using the opportunity, I ask CB not to change the
demand to the capital for acting banks in near 5 years. According to
the information I poses, neither one country in Europe and Asia and
even in America, besides Kazakhstan, has the demands on capital more
than $5 million. I think, in this issue we should try to present
ourselves as bigger Catholics than Rome Pope, because it can lead to
losing of investors’ interest to banking activity in our country. The
banks themselves understand that it is necessary to increase the
capital and competition will lead to it without pressure by CB. CB
has made much for the banking system in the whole, however I think
that negative conditions that occurred in banking system in last 2-3
years, namely bankrupt Ardshinbank and Credit-Yerevan Bank, should
frighten our main bank, so much that it made such a decisions.
Armenian Banks Union asks CBA not to make decision when either the
sum of the capital is decreasing, or minimal demands to it are
growing.
ARKA – What risks expect banking system in 2005?
S.Chzmachian – We must be maximally careful in the issue of
crediting, must correspond to new demands on foreign exchange
position. The banks must be very attentive in fulfillment of demands
of new law on fight against money laundry and financing of terrorism,
because even one mistake committed by one bank can have significantly
negative influence on the whole banking system of Armenia. The banks
must be careful in hiring people. I would like to mention that
corporate management implemented by CB should not envisage full
depersonalization of people. L.D. -0 –

Armenian group stages demo over editorial on US official’s remarks
Noyan Tapan news agency
21 Jan 05
YEREVAN
The Stability public movement staged a protest outside the editorial
office of Armenia’s Aravot newspaper in the Press House on 21
January. They demanded that either the newspaper publish a denial of
an editorial in its latest issue or the editor-in-chief of the
newspaper leave the country as a “traitor”.
The editorial said the following: “In the opinion of some observers,
the statement of US Assistant State Secretary for European and
Eurasian Affairs Elizabeth Jones that the Nagornyy Karabakh
authorities are ‘corrupt’ and ‘criminal’ is absolutely slanderous, for
the ‘corrupt’ and ‘criminal’ elements of Karabakh have long moved to
Armenia.”
Burning the 20 January issue of Aravot, members of the movement said
that the protest is directed against the bias of the newspaper, not
against freedom of conscience or democracy. In their view, the article
was “reprinted from the Turkish press and is in line with the way of
thinking of the Turkish rabble”. The protesters carried slogans
“Aravot is a traitor”.
The newspaper has no intention of refuting its opinion and does not
take seriously the opinion of these “young people”, the
editor-in-chief of Aravot, Aram Abramyan, told Noyan Tapan news
agency. He said that the protesters may express their indignation on
the pages of Aravot.

PRESS RELEASE
Catholicosate of Cilicia
Communication and Information Department
Contact: V. Rev. Fr. Krikor Chiftjian, Communications Officer
Tel: (04) 410001, 410003
Fax: (04) 419724
E- mail: [email protected]
Web:
PO Box 70 317
Antelias-Lebanon
POLITICAL AND CHURCH LEADERS IN ANTELIAS
Antelias, Lebanon – The last week was also marked by the visits of
political, diplomatic and religious leaders to Antelias. Among the visitors
were the former president of Lebanon, cabinet ministers, deputies,
ambassadors, Moslem and Christian community leaders.
The discussion of the dignitaries with His Holiness Aram I covered the
internal situation in Lebanon, in light of growing opposition and
forthcoming elections, situation in Iraq, the actual state of peace process,
Christian-Moslem dialogue, and the Ecumenical witness of the Armenian
Catholicosate on regional and international levels.
##
The Armenian Catholicosate of Cilicia is one of the two Catholicosates of
the Armenian Orthodox Church. For detailed information about the history and
the mission of the Cilician Catholicosate, you may refer to the web page of
the Catholicosate, The Cilician Catholicosate, the
administrative center of the church is located in Antelias, Lebanon.
From: Emil Lazarian | Ararat NewsPress

Xinhua General News Service
January 19, 2005 Wednesday 2:30 PM EST
AL urges US to adopt “new policy” in Middle East
CAIRO
Arab League (AL) chief Amr Moussa on Wednesday urged the United
States to adopt a “new policy” toward conflicts in the Middle East,
especially the Palestinian-Israeli issue, Egypt’s official MENA news
agency reported.
Condoleezza Rice, designated US secretary of state, used “new
language” when talking about the US Mideast policy at Tuesday’s
confirmation hearing in the Senate, Moussa was quoted as telling
visiting Armenian Foreign Minister Vardan Oskanyan.
“We hope the new language used by Rice can be turned into new
actions,” Moussa said, adding the United States should act as a ”
true mediator” on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
He also blasted Israel for its “aggressions against the Palestinian
people,” saying the current Israeli policy would only exacerbate the
situation in the region.
On the Iraqi file, Moussa warned against sectarian conflicts between
majority Shiite Muslims and minority Sunni Muslims in the country.
“Iraq should not be divided on a sectarian basis,” he said.
He said that the Iraqi parliamentarian elections slated for Jan. 30
were an important part of the political process in the country, and
urged all Iraqis to vote.

Assa-Irada, Azerbaijan
Jan 18 2005
Putin, Bush to discuss Garabagh conflict in Bratislava

US and Russian presidents George Bush and Vladimir Putin will discuss
ways of settling the Upper Garabagh conflict in Bratislava in
February, along with other issues, says US Assistant Secretary for
European and Eurasian Affairs Elizabeth Jones.
The two presidents will call for stepping up activity in the area of
resolving conflicts in the former Soviet Union countries, including
the Garabagh conflict, she said.
Jones also indicated that the Bush administration is concerned over
the lack of influence on part of Moscow in settling the conflict.
`We believe that Russia should be interested in the resolution of
conflicts over Upper Garabagh, North Ossetia, Abkhazia and Dnestr.’

ITAR-TASS News Agency
TASS
January 13, 2005 Thursday 10:18 AM Eastern Time
Azerbaijan-Armenia talks in Prague yield no results – diplomat
By Sevindzh Abdullayeva and Viktor Shulman
BAKU
The talks between the Azerbaijani and Armenian foreign ministers in
Prague on January 11 have not yielded any concrete results, said
Azerbaijani Deputy Foreign Minister Araz Azimov, who is also
presidential special envoy for the talks on Nagorno-Karabakh
settlement.
Speaking at a press briefing on Thursday, Azimov said, “There are
many disagreements. The talks are being held in a difficult
atmosphere.” At the same time, he noted that both sides are
interested in reaching concrete agreements.
“Azerbaijan favours the peaceful settlement of the conflict in
compliance with the norms of international law in order to preserve
the country’s territorial integrity,” the Azerbaijani diplomat
stressed.
The restoration of Azerbaijan’s territorial integrity is one of the
key problems in ensuring peace in the region, but this will not solve
the problem in full, he added. One of the major purposes is to
convince the Azerbaijani and Armenian population to live in peace,
but “now it’s early to talk about it,” the diplomat pointed out.
Commenting on possible compromises, Azimov said it is possible to
reach any compromise if both sides succeed in bringing their
positions closer.
“The frozen situation will not give any results,” the diplomat said.
Azerbaijan seeks to discuss the problem related to freeing seven
occupied regions of the country that may help restore traffic and
restore economic cooperation with Armenia, Azimov said.
The next round of talks may be held at the end of February. In his
words, the U.N. special mission is expected to visit the region on
January 28. It includes representatives of the countries co-chairing
in the OSCE Minsk Group for Nagorno-Karabakh – Russia, the U.S. and
France, as well as members of the Minsk Group – Finland, Italy,
Sweden and Germany.