Spotlight on Nagorno Karabakh
Khaleej Times, United Arab Emirates
June 13 2005
Mohammed A. R. Galadari visited Azerbaijan on an invitation from the
President, Ilham Aliyev. The visit was aimed essentially at putting
the spotlight on the Nagorno Karabakh issue, one of the “smouldering
problems” of the Caucasus region, which seems to have been largely
forgotten by the world.
Armenian-backed forces in the region had driven out Azerbaijani troops
in 1994, in the follow up to a war that killed nearly 40,000 people
and about a million homeless.
Azerbaijan’s complaint is that the international community has shut
its eyes on the case. Nagorno Karabakh area has been occupied by
Armenia while one million of its inhabitants are out of their homes
and their territory. Those people are living in refugee camps in Baku
and elsewhere in miserable conditions.
“The Government of Azerbaijan wants the Arab world and the Islamic
countries, especially the Gulf states, to get to know about the
sufferings in another part of the Islamic world and offer whatever
help possible to these people”, senior leaders said, noting that
Khaleej Times being the premier daily for the Gulf Region, it could
help in this matter.
“The whole world agrees and admits that Nagorno Karabakh is a part
of Azerbaijan and Armenia should pull out its troops and let the
original inhabitants of Nagorno Karabakh return to their territories.
But, the fact is that no help is coming and the solutions are still
on paper. The Armenian forces are occupying Nagorno Karabakh for the
last many years. Nothing has happened since then, and the patience of
Azerbaijanis is running out. They cannot fight Armenia as they are
sure they are not going to fight just Armenia, but also the powers
that support Armenia.
What has Ali Hasanov, Azerbaijan’s Deputy Prime Minister, who is also
the head of the State Committee for Refugees and IDPs, and head of
the Republican Commission on International Humanitarian Assistance,
to say on the subject?
Hasanov said the main reason which hinders a peaceful solution to
the problem is the interest that the neighbouring countries – Iran,
Turkey, and Russia – take in the matter. “They have their own agenda”.
“We have about one million refugees from a total population of eight
million. We are trying to help those refugees through addressing all
humanitarian organisations as well as calling on Armenia to release
their territory. However, all these calls have been ignored and no
one listens to us,” he said.
He said the Armenian leader even refused to reply, “and that’s why
we feel there is no justice coming from international organisations,
as they are adopting double standards”.
“Many a time, our president said that if the problem of Nagorno
Karabakh doesn’t get solved peacefully, we will be forced to fight
to liberate our land. “Our patience is running out, and there is a
limit to everything. All we are asking is, how long will our case
be ignored? There is no similar situation anywhere in the world,
whereas neighbouring countries who are members of the Commonwealth of
Independent States have seized and captured the land of its neighbour.
Question: Why did you say that Armenia doesn’t care about the
international community … and how do they have this power?
Answer: In fact, they have no power, but the power has been given to
them through the endless support of other countries, especially Russia.
Question: Why don’t you use force to liberate your land?
Answer: We have the international right to do that, and we will be
able to liberate our land if the struggle is limited between Armenia
and Azerbaijan. I mean, there should be no interference from regional
powers. Russian military bases surround us. There are two military
bases around Azerbaijan.
Question: Why can’t Azerbaijan make this issue alive? And why is it
ignored like that?
Answer: There is enough information available about Nagorno Karabakh as
well as about the Armenian occupation. At the end of 2001, the United
States issued a statement against the occupation of Nagorno Karabakh
by Armenia. The world started to pay attention to the issue when
the EU Commissioner issued a statement last year. At the beginning
of 1991, when Azerbaijan was a newly independent country, we were
still weak, which gave the chance to Armenia to occupy our land,
but in the last 6-7 years, we have been very active. Some years ago,
the US Congress passed a law stipulating punishment for any country
helping or supporting Azerbaijan, and it was very clear that Armenian
power was behind the US policy.
In fact, Armenia is being helped by the US State Department by
being paid hundred million dollars every year. The US, French and
Russian governments have their interest in the region. Russia also
has a military interest in the region, as it has its bases in Nagorno
Karabakh. The power of the Armenian community in France is also very
great as there are a great number of Armenians living in France. The
Armenian community has a great say in the elections in both the US and
France. Therefore, US and France will not try to solve the problem
seriously as the Armenian lobby exerts pressure in decision-making
in both France and US.
Question: Actually Russia has been benefited from Azerbaijan oil for
a long time, and both Russia and Azerbaijan had good relations. So,
why is Russia more helpful to Armenia than to Azerbaijan?
Answer: We don’t think Russia is helping Armenia more than Azerbaijan,
but historically, Russia has been concerned with Armenia for a
long time.
Question: Does this mean Russia is more interested in Armenia than
Azerbaijan because they were responsible for creating Armenia?
Answer: In fact, Russia did create Armenia, but then, look at countries
like Iran and Turkey. Was Armenia ever a part of them?
Question: Iran is helping Armenia. Is it because they don’t want
an Azerbaijan bigger than Iran as there is about 25 per cent of
Azerbaijani territory in Iran?
Answer: In 1992, when the National Party was in power, the president
used one phrase, which may have scared Iran about the agenda of
Azerbaijan.
Question: Maybe Turkey supports Armenia because it does not want
to create a Kurdistan state, as there are Kurds in Iran, Turkey and
Iraq? Similarly, in Iran, there is a big community of Azerbaijanis,
and maybe Iran is afraid of unifying the Azerbaijani community,
which feels Azerbaijan is the mother state.
Answer: Actually, we don’t have Kurds in Azerbaijan, but I don’t really
know why Iran is helping Armenia because the Azerbaijanis who are
living in Iran are Iranians. There are Iranian official delegations
paying visits to Armenia and to Nagorno Karabakh specifically, where
they supplied the region with humanitarian aid and other logistic
supplies. We are amazed and surprised over such kind of help.
Question: What about the Organisation of Islamic Conference? Did it
support Azerbaijan? They did issue a statement some time ago, that
Armenia has occupied Azerbaijan land. But, the OIC has never come out
strongly on any issue. See what is happening in the Kashmir case and
that of Palestine, and the OIC does not appear serious about them.
Answer: There have been lots of statements issued by the world
organisations.
Question: Why aren’t you starting a media campaign against Armenia
to explain your case?
Answer: Azerbaijan is not that rich to make such kind of campaigns
but Armenia undertook such campaigns against us and said we are very
rich and have benefited from petroleum wealth, but this is not true.
The Azerbaijan economy is, in fact, in a crisis as it is down 11 per
cent from what it achieved at the time of being a part of the Soviet
Union. As for the oil contracts, we will not really benefit from them
for the next few years.
Question: Historically, we know that Turkey has bad relations with
Armenia. Then, why does Turkey not make good use of its ties with Nato
of which it’s a member to help solve the problem of Nagorno Karabakh?
Answer: Turkey can’t do that because Armenia has the protection of
Russia, and Russia will interfere in the war in case of any attacks
against Armenia.
Question: What about the refugees living in camps, and in what
circumstances are they living?
Answer: There are about 1,600 settlements for the refugees and there
are also complexes for them. We are trying to ease their lives. In
Baku, there are 160,000 refugees living in our camps and settlements.
***************
Visit to refugee camps in Baku
The refugee camps in Baku and elsewhere were established as a result
of Armenian occupation of the Azerbaijani area Nagorno Karabakh.
The occupation led the Azerbaijani inhabitants of the occupied region
to flee their territory behind them.
The number of refuges is about one million, out of a total eight
million inhabitants in the country – that means one out of every
eight persons in Azerbaijan is a refugee.
Galadari witnessed the miserable conditions in which the refugees were
living. He was accompanied by members of the Republican Commission
and the State Committee for Refugees and IDPs.
The Republican Commission on International Humanitarian Assistance was
established on the basis of the Azerbaijani Presidential Decree No. 144
dated January 15, 1995. The Republican Commission is coordinating its
activities with international humanitarian organisations. As a result
of the ethnic cleansing policy of Armenia over 1988-1992 period, some
250,000 Azerbaijanis, who lived in that territory, were forcefully
pushed out of their native land, and they came to Azerbaijan. 5As a
consequence of military aggression of the Armenian armed forces in
1988, some 20 per cent of Azerbaijan territories – mountains Karabakh
and seven adjacent regions were occupied, and 60,000 Azerbaijanis
of mountains Karabakh and more than 600,000 fellow countrymen from
surrounding regions lost their permanent homes, and were temporarily
settled in more than 1,600 shelters within 62 cities and regions of
the country.
Due to this encroachment, 100,000 Azerbaijanis living in territories
adjoining Armenia such as the autonomous republic of Nakhtchivan,
Agstafa, Kazakh, Touvuz, Agabadi, Gadabay were forced to leave
their homeland. The visit was aimed at highlighting the problems of
the refugees of karabakh in addition to attracting the attention
of the world, especially the Arab world to another problem in the
Islamic world. The problem is about 15 years old when Armenian forces
occupied a part of an Islamic country and forced its people to flee
to Azerbaijan.
The refugees were seen living in groups in places looking like caves
without any facilities. Their shelters are made of tin plates. In
winter, they are exposed to freezing cold.
It is important that the Islamic world and the people of the Gulf
region extended generous help to the refugees by supplying them with
humanitarian aid.
************
Interview with Elmar Mammadyarov, Minister of Foreign Affairs
Question: To be frank, I liked your country and I am keen on knowing
more about the Nagorno Karabakh issue and to have a good chance to
highlight the issue to my readers. There are a lot of cases of issues
in Islamic countries being ignored by the international community. In
the case of north Timor in Indonesia, and in south Sudan, and many
other cases, we find the international community rushing to help and
find solutions to these cases. But the same enthusiasm is not seen
in cases relating to the Islamic countries.
Answer: It is very good of you to come to our country to know about the
Karabakh issue. I know that Khaleej Times is a good, reputed newspaper
in the Gulf region. It is good of you to have come here and see from
close quarters what is happening to your brothers in Azerbaijan.
Question: In the UAE, we have expatriates from over a hundred countries
and get about five million tourists a year. It will be a good chance
for the people there to know about the issue of Nagorno Karabakh.
Answer: Yes, that’s true. We are in need of activating our issue
and we need to bring the attention of the international community
to do its best to find a solution to the conflict. Otherwise, the
sufferings of the Azerbaijanis will continue, which is not good,
and the area will be a source for conflict. We also do not agree
that the Armenians will continue to occupy the land and capture the
territory of the Azerbaijanis forever.
Question: In fact, when I paid a visit to the refugee camps, I was
really concerned over their plight and I have sympathised with them…
Answer: Yes, it is true they are suffering and we are doing our best
to solve their problems and ease their lives, in spite of the fact
that we know no place on earth will equal one’s homeland. Therefore,
we are tying to solve the case through peaceful means, and we are
doing our best to help them. We also try to explain to Armenia that
violent measures are not the way to solve the problem. Why should
people suffer like that where they are forcefully expelled and deported
from their homes?
It will not only be the Azerbaijanis who will suffer, but also the
Armenians if a war breaks out between the two countries. We are
trying to attract the attention of the international community and
the world organisations to find a solution to the issue. It should be
a movement from the West and the world community to solve the issue,
but unfortunately, it is not as easy as it sounds.
The war started in 1988, and we could say it was the first clash, and
the real war was in 1990. In the same year, a ceasefire was fixed. As
a result of this war, about 20 per cent of the whole population is
affected, leading to a full destruction of communications, including
the part which is isolated and captured by Armenian forces.
We are definitely doing our best to rebuild the country. Azerbaijan is
rich with resources, we have oil and gas in addition to other sources
and the Azerbaijani manpower is our main source, which will give
Azerbaijan a good opportunity to be a developed country and witness
comprehensive development in all sectors. We have tried to deal nicely
with the Armenians and cooperate with them, but they have refused. We
explained to them that, let us cooperate with each other, which will
benefit our economies, but unfortunately there was no response from
the Armenians. This is the major problem and the other problem being
that the Armenians don’t want to have peace.
Question: Your country had called in many western companies to help
develop and export your oil. How are things progressing?
Answer: You know that we in Azerbaijan are not doing things like
that…the most important thing for Azerbaijan is to build a very
strong and independent state. Therefore, we are trying to have good
relations with all the countries. We also appreciate the support from
the Organization of the Islamic Conference. In the case of western
communities, we have quite strong relations with the Europeans from
where most of the investments here are coming.
We have invited big oil companies from all over the world and we
didn’t name specific companies.
Question: What benefit do you expect from the long pipeline from
Azerbaijan through Georgia to Turkish port of Geyhan?
Answer: This is one of the major successes we have. It is important
for us because it will be our access to the Mediterranean area and
Azerbaijanis will be benefited because we will be able to produce
one million barrel of oil per day, and if we just calculate that,
it would show Azerbaijan will receive about one billion dollar per
year, which will benefit the people.
Question: Why had environmental groups been protesting against the
pipeline project?
Answer: Most of the environmental groups raised this issue in
Georgia and we think that there are lots of sources and foundations
supporting this. Any way, we addressed these matters to companies,
which are engaged in the project, such as Azerbaijan State Oil Company,
Azerbaijan International Oil Company and BTC, and they addressed the
issue and we settled all the demands of the environmental groups.
Question: Some say you are walking a tightrope between Russia and
western regional geo-strategic interest. How do you view this charge?
Answer: Our relations with Russia have been developed in the last few
years quiet successfully. We have a huge community of Azerbaijanis
living there. It is important for us for multiple purposes, as Russia
is a very huge market for us, as well as Russia and Azerbaijan were
a part of one state for decades. Therefore, it is important for both
of us to have good relations in all sectors such as agriculture,
industry etc.
We are developing relations with Russia from the economic point of
view, while in the political part, we have in the last few years
established equal partnership between the two countries. With regard
to the geo-strategic importance, yes, in fact, if you look at the map,
you will see how much Azerbaijan is important to Russia. Azerbaijan
is its access to central Asia and the Caspian sea and it is very
important, and we have taken a stand to cooperate with everyone. The
most important thing is that we have to strengthen our independence.
Question: What is the state of economic and political reforms in
Azerbaijan?
Answer: Through the last few years, after the appropriate decrees of
the president, the GDP of Azerbaijan has doubled. We can say 80 per
cent of the Azerbaijani GDP is coming from the private sector.
Question: How is the economy faring? How serious are you about
industrialisation? What are the investment opportunities?
Answer: Investment opportunities are very good, and as I said, we
are getting more and more investors from all over the world.
Question: What about the Gulf region? Are you getting investments
from there?
Answer: We are focusing on them and in fact we are inviting them to
Azerbaijan and I tell our people to go and call the Gulf people to
invest in Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan is both the access point to Asia
and to the huge market of Russia, which will be a good chance to
companies to have investments in Azerbaijan.
Question: A complaint is that the living conditions of the people are
not improving, even though enough money is coming into the government
hands from the oil revenue. Why is it so?
Answer: I think you are an angel from a human rights group. Any way,
it is good that democracy is coming to the Gulf region. In the case
of the poverty in Azerbaijan, you should take into considerations
the fact that the country is in transition, the real money whatever
we put in, will take time to give returns, which will come after 2006
or thereafter. We have to wait for more years to savour the fruits of
our present endeavours. We have invested largely in the oil sector,
for instance, and it will help us in future.
Question: How are you tackling the issue of corruption, which I
perceive is a serious problem in this country?
Answer: Corruption is a problem here and I can say it is a worldwide
problem. There are a few ways to get rid of corruption, and one of
these approaches is to increase the salaries of the people, which will
help in that it will reduce the urge to take bribes. The second way is
through strengthening the laws and the measures against corruption. The
third solution is on strengthening the educational system. The more
educated the people are, the less the chances of corruption.
Question: What about the country’s relations with Russia? Russia has
good relations with Armenia. How is it affecting your case?
Answer: Armenia occupied the land of Azerbaijan after getting help from
Russia and other countries, and see, we don’t have any doubt that they
will return our land. In our relations with Russia, we are looking for
an equal partnership, but in the case of the relations of Russia with
Armenia, frankly, we don’t like or we don’t want to interfere in that,
but we know that Russia supplied Armenia illegally with weapons and
as well with soldiers. In case of the relation of Azerbaijan with the
others, we try to explain that the political stability and economic
development are the main objectives of Azerbaijan.
Question: How are your relations with Armenia after signing the
cease-fire in 1994?
Answer: In fact, the two armies are facing each other and exchanging
fires from time to time, and we still have causalties on the border.
Question: The opposition is raising the issue of dynastic
succession-the president having succeeded his father. They say this
would set a bad precedent for the central Asian region. How do you
view the scene?
Answer: The opposition says this. What I want to say is that we
want to continue the good work we are doing with a view to bringing
prosperity to Azerbaijanis, as also political stability.
Question: President Bush sent a letter to president Ilham Aliyev,
offering him support when he took over. Bush sought his support for
building democratic institutions. How does he respond to Bush’s call?
Answer: It is not only because President Bush sent a letter that
we are promoting democracy. We have undertaken that process, we are
constructing the foundations of democracy, and so our aspiration is
towards developing democracy now.
Question: Freedom of speech is guaranteed in your constitution. But
there are complaints of the media not being free.
Answer: I totally disagree with you and if you have looked at our
newspapers, you will know how they are doing their jobs in a very
free and liberal atmosphere. They often criticise ministers.
Question: Rights organisations complain about the operation of the
judicial process and abuse of detainees’ rights by police. Please
comment.
Answer: No, I don’t believe in that. In fact, when we are talking
about the abuses of police, I think it had happened from time to time,
and we don’t hide it and we deal with such situations in a fair manner.
Question: What are the fields in which Azerbaijan and UAE have
cooperation?
Answer: We have lots of opportunities for cooperation, and we have
the possibility to develop the relationship. We have good cooperation,
especially in trading, and we have three flights per week between the
two countries. Lots of tourists are coming from Azerbaijan to the UAE.