ARMEN DZHIGARKHANYAN: “VICTORY IS WHEN TWO CONFLICTING PEOPLE AGREE, ASK, CONVINCE EACH OTHER”
Vestnik Kavkaza, Russia
Sept 19 2014
19 September 2014 – 7:21pm
Interview by Oleg Kusov, exclusively to Vestnik Kavkaza Interesting
guests are always welcome at Vestnik Kavkaza. Oleg Kusov gives all
guests in the studio an opportunity to speak. These conversations are
not only about the Caucasus. A half-hour conversation over tea passes
quickly. The section “Take My Word” records conversations in video,
audio and text formats. The guest of Vestnik Kavkaza today is Armen
Dzhigarkhanyan.
– Armen Borisovich, we are now at your theatre. I should ask you as
a compatriot, do you have Caucasian plays in your theatre?
– Believe me, whoever I play, I always stay an Armenian. I can play
in Russian, French, English, but still I am an Armenian. This is my
genetics, whether I want it or not. I can pretend that I will play
a French Louis. This is not true! I will play an Armenian Louis.
Whether you glue noses or a beard on me, it doesn’t matter. This is
my essence, my genetics. Moreover, if I have to speak about a problem,
I will do it in an Armenian manner.
– At the moment your colleague, director Anatoly Dzivayev, is working
in Ossetia on a very interesting film project “Tili and Toli.”
It has an international, Ossetian-Georgian plot, when a state border
separates two old friends, and they don’t understand why it has
happened to them. I’m sure you are aware of the project.
– This is a good question.
– But there is a view that it is difficult to touch on such
complicated topics in cinema and theatre.
– No. There was a great Armenian poet, Ovanes Tumanyan, who was also
a great person. He would run anywhere where two people – sometimes two
Armenians or an Azerbaijani and an Armenian – fought, because there was
a lack of water in a canal – one of them spent all the water resources,
and th other is indignant. And he had to settle the conflict. The worst
thing is when people use force. We know that it is important to agree.
– But there are people who don’t want to agree and use force, and
it leads to an avalanche of problems.
– Yes. And Ovanes Tumanyan comes and says: “Folks, let’s do it
together: I will help you to stream the water here, and you will
help him. At first water runs to you, and then it runs to you.” So,
we count on smart people. And we can see it every day. We witness
the developments. The easiest and the worst option is war. Fighting
is the worst thing, and life confirms this. Nations died because of it.
– It doesn’t solve the problem, it only makes it more complicated.
– Bernard Shaw said a wonderful phrase: “You are able to talk.”
This should be used rather than beating each other and thinking this
is a victory. This is not true. Victory is the ability to agree,
to ask, to convince each other. Let’s do it in this way. The easiest
path is shooting at each other. And what’s next? It is a difficult
question. That’s why people have no common formula. We always meet
smart people who think about it and try to settle the task. My mother
said: “Take a pencil and write it down.” Of course. Unfortunately, we
have seen a lot of tragedies. I think it is a difficult question. This
is a domestic problem. We eat some food, they eat different food. At
first it was nice, but someday… Ovanes Tumanyan has a poem “A Drop
of Honey.” It is a great story. A man and his dog are on their way
home after hunting; they see a local resident: “Please pour a jar
of honey for me, so I can return home.” And when he pours him honey,
a drop falls on the floor. The cat of the resident jumps to lick the
drop, but the hunter’s dog attacks the cat. The resident takes a stone
and kills the dog. Of course the hunter was angry… And a war starts.
– Because of a drop of honey.
– Yes, of course. I’ve told you the story poorly, but it is
outstanding.
– You have told it outstandingly. Speaking about a Caucasian person,
do you think there is a common culture of the Caucasus, when people
understand each other from one sight?
– I should ask you a question. In what language will we talk to
each other? I am an Armenian, I speak Armenian. And I should talk to
an Azerbaijani.
– You can use the Russian language.
– Oh, you are too cunning.
– Presidents still use Russian to talk to each other.
– No, my dear, no. There is an interpreter. It is important. I
have good friends among interpreters; they say that one comma can
solve big problems. This is a difficult question; that’s why they
interpret ideas, essence, not words. I ask you: in what language do
the President of Russia and the President of Ukraine communicate?
– I think in Russian.
– But he is a Ukrainian. What if he doesn’t speak Russian?
– I wish they communicated in Russian, because we were born in
one country.
– I think there are details. I am an Armenian.
– I am an Ossetian.
– They always ask me: in what language do you think? I cannot say
for sure, but it seems to me I am thinking in Russian. We know that
there are many details. We have just spoken about interpreters.
There are many details and shades: louder, softer, to the left,
to the right. This is the core of diplomacy – to find a precise
definition. I think cunning people are building their policies on this.
– What to say and how to interpret it.
– Once I saw an interpreter translated something, but it turned out
the speaker spoke the language better than the interpreter and he
said: “You misinterpreted my words. I mean a different thing.” This
is a complicated world. So we make arguments to convince people and
agree with them. Yes, concessions are needed. Yes, we like cabob,
they like pilaf, but we can live in peace. And we must agree. I think
art is very important, in what language a story is narrated. I know
that the Armenians are Christians, the Azerbaijanis are Muslims. But
this is not a reason for fighting each other.
– This is a reason for rapprochement, understanding the common ways
of God.
– Certainly. But there are ignorant and “kind” people who use this…
– To provide their own interests.
– So, I think the main thing is that we should want to live, not die;
and in this case we will understand it. If my child, my grandchild
lives, I will think about supporting them. I think it is important.
– Are you’re a Soviet person mentally?
– What is a Soviet person?
– First of all, it is an internationalist.
– I don’t really understand. I don’t know. I can find an appropriate
word. If I am good in my heart, if I want to help people, I am an
internationalist, as you say, I can’t find a precise word. But if
I want to humiliate someone with this, it is bad. The main thing is
the ability to agree.
– That’s why God made people talk to each other.
– Precisely. They talk to agree with each other.
– And finally, what is the secret of your love for life? You are a
very active person who is always busy.
– I think the secret is love. I love my job. I love the people who
work with me and talk to me. I see many different things. I am an
old person and understand a lot in life. I am an experienced actor,
I have spent 60 years in the theatre. I was taught: you should try
something different. You play nice, but let’s try a different way. And
it will enable us to find many details. I like smart people so much.
Once a smart person said about one of the laws of jurisprudence:
there is too much evidence to consider them sufficient.
Interview by Oleg Kusov, exclusively to Vestnik Kavkaza
Interesting guests are always welcome at Vestnik Kavkaza. Oleg Kusov
gives all guests in the studio an opportunity to speak. These
conversations are not only about the Caucasus. A half-hour
conversation over tea passes quickly. The section “Take My Word”
records conversations in video, audio and text formats. The guest of
Vestnik Kavkaza today is Armen Dzhigarkhanyan.
– Armen Borisovich, we are now at your theatre. I should ask you as
a compatriot, do you have Caucasian plays in your theatre?
– Believe me, whoever I play, I always stay an Armenian. I can play
in Russian, French, English, but still I am an Armenian. This is my
genetics, whether I want it or not. I can pretend that I will play
a French Louis. This is not true! I will play an Armenian Louis.
Whether you glue noses or a beard on me, it doesn’t matter. This is
my essence, my genetics. Moreover, if I have to speak about a problem,
I will do it in an Armenian manner.
– At the moment your colleague, director Anatoly Dzivayev, is working
in Ossetia on a very interesting film project “Tili and Toli.”
It has an international, Ossetian-Georgian plot, when a state border
separates two old friends, and they don’t understand why it has
happened to them. I’m sure you are aware of the project.
– This is a good question.
– But there is a view that it is difficult to touch on such
complicated topics in cinema and theatre.
– No. There was a great Armenian poet, Ovanes Tumanyan, who was also
a great person. He would run anywhere where two people – sometimes two
Armenians or an Azerbaijani and an Armenian – fought, because there was
a lack of water in a canal – one of them spent all the water resources,
and th other is indignant. And he had to settle the conflict. The worst
thing is when people use force. We know that it is important to agree.
– But there are people who don’t want to agree and use force, and
it leads to an avalanche of problems.
– Yes. And Ovanes Tumanyan comes and says: “Folks, let’s do it
together: I will help you to stream the water here, and you will
help him. At first water runs to you, and then it runs to you.” So,
we count on smart people. And we can see it every day. We witness
the developments. The easiest and the worst option is war. Fighting
is the worst thing, and life confirms this. Nations died because of it.
– It doesn’t solve the problem, it only makes it more complicated.
– Bernard Shaw said a wonderful phrase: “You are able to talk.”
This should be used rather than beating each other and thinking this
is a victory. This is not true. Victory is the ability to agree,
to ask, to convince each other. Let’s do it in this way. The easiest
path is shooting at each other. And what’s next? It is a difficult
question. That’s why people have no common formula. We always meet
smart people who think about it and try to settle the task. My mother
said: “Take a pencil and write it down.” Of course. Unfortunately, we
have seen a lot of tragedies. I think it is a difficult question. This
is a domestic problem. We eat some food, they eat different food. At
first it was nice, but someday… Ovanes Tumanyan has a poem “A Drop
of Honey.” It is a great story. A man and his dog are on their way
home after hunting; they see a local resident: “Please pour a jar
of honey for me, so I can return home.” And when he pours him honey,
a drop falls on the floor. The cat of the resident jumps to lick the
drop, but the hunter’s dog attacks the cat. The resident takes a stone
and kills the dog. Of course the hunter was angry… And a war starts.
– Because of a drop of honey.
– Yes, of course. I’ve told you the story poorly, but it is
outstanding.
– You have told it outstandingly. Speaking about a Caucasian person,
do you think there is a common culture of the Caucasus, when people
understand each other from one sight?
– I should ask you a question. In what language will we talk to
each other? I am an Armenian, I speak Armenian. And I should talk to
an Azerbaijani.
– You can use the Russian language.
– Oh, you are too cunning.
– Presidents still use Russian to talk to each other.
– No, my dear, no. There is an interpreter. It is important. I
have good friends among interpreters; they say that one comma can
solve big problems. This is a difficult question; that’s why they
interpret ideas, essence, not words. I ask you: in what language do
the President of Russia and the President of Ukraine communicate?
– I think in Russian.
– But he is a Ukrainian. What if he doesn’t speak Russian?
– I wish they communicated in Russian, because we were born in
one country.
– I think there are details. I am an Armenian.
– I am an Ossetian.
– They always ask me: in what language do you think? I cannot say
for sure, but it seems to me I am thinking in Russian. We know that
there are many details. We have just spoken about interpreters.
There are many details and shades: louder, softer, to the left,
to the right. This is the core of diplomacy – to find a precise
definition. I think cunning people are building their policies on this.
– What to say and how to interpret it.
– Once I saw an interpreter translated something, but it turned out
the speaker spoke the language better than the interpreter and he
said: “You misinterpreted my words. I mean a different thing.” This
is a complicated world. So we make arguments to convince people and
agree with them. Yes, concessions are needed. Yes, we like cabob,
they like pilaf, but we can live in peace. And we must agree. I think
art is very important, in what language a story is narrated. I know
that the Armenians are Christians, the Azerbaijanis are Muslims. But
this is not a reason for fighting each other.
– This is a reason for rapprochement, understanding the common ways
of God.
– Certainly. But there are ignorant and “kind” people who use this…
– To provide their own interests.
– So, I think the main thing is that we should want to live, not die;
and in this case we will understand it. If my child, my grandchild
lives, I will think about supporting them. I think it is important.
– Are you’re a Soviet person mentally?
– What is a Soviet person?
– First of all, it is an internationalist.
– I don’t really understand. I don’t know. I can find an appropriate
word. If I am good in my heart, if I want to help people, I am an
internationalist, as you say, I can’t find a precise word. But if
I want to humiliate someone with this, it is bad. The main thing is
the ability to agree.
– That’s why God made people talk to each other.
– Precisely. They talk to agree with each other.
– And finally, what is the secret of your love for life? You are a
very active person who is always busy.
– I think the secret is love. I love my job. I love the people who
work with me and talk to me. I see many different things. I am an
old person and understand a lot in life. I am an experienced actor,
I have spent 60 years in the theatre. I was taught: you should try
something different. You play nice, but let’s try a different way. And
it will enable us to find many details. I like smart people so much.
Once a smart person said about one of the laws of jurisprudence:
there is too much evidence to consider them sufficient.
http://vestnikkavkaza.net/interviews/society/60166.html