On December 7, 2018 the Appellate Court refused to satisfy the Armenian second President Robert Kocharyan’s defense team’s appeal and upheld the Trial Court’s decision of July 27 that applied pre-trial detention as a provisional measure against Mr. Kocharyan. According to this decision, Mr. Kocharyan was arrested on the same day and he is now held at the Yerevan’s Central Penitentiary Institution. Few days ago, Mr. Kocharyan have sent us his responses to our questionnaire. Below is the full interview.
-Mr. Kocharyan, the number one topic on today’s domestic political agenda is the status of negotiations around the Nagorno-Karabakh’s issue. It is unclear if the negotiations are underway or not. With that said, a number of political analysts are under the impression that the negotiations are held confidentially from the public and some sort of deal is being “cooked.” What’s your take on this? What can we expect regarding the resolution of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict?
-Irrespective of Pashinyan’s attempts to conceal the negotiations, they are underway. The degree to which the Prime Minister is trying to conceal it is more alarming than the actual fact of the negotiations. The public is unaware what’s the position of the current administration on Nagorno-Karabakh, because the authorities have not articulated one. And that is what causes a concern. How can you have a successful negotiation without an articulated position? Negotiations are not empty gatherings, they are means to reinforce the agreed upon accomplishments.
There are a number of key provisions in Nagorno-Karabakh’s negotiations for which authorities must have a predefined position before the negotiations start. It is clear that Aliyev easily gained a stronger position over Pashinyan. Dushanbe’s “elevator” negotiations in essence abolished the favorable results Vienna and Saint Petersburg’s meetings achieved on building confidence measures around the frontline. Yet, these measures were the price Azerbaijan was paying for initiating the April war. Hostilities in which our side lost more than 100 men. It’s no longer important what caused the Prime Minister to make such concessions. In both cases it is a wrong policy choice whether it is a calculated decision or a result of his incompetence. Armenian side has set a high bar for concessions both inside Armenia and Azerbaijan, as well as amongst the Minsk Group Co-Chairs. That’s why I believe the next proposals from the Minsk Group will not be particularly favorable for us.
-One more question on this topic. There are rumors in the news and social media suggesting that your arrest is linked to potential upcoming resolution of the Nagorno-Karabakh problem. Allegedly, while you are under the arrest, the administration will be making a deal. I assume you are aware about this, including about the so-called “Bolton program” (assuming it exists). What do you think it is—a conspiracy theory or a real fact?
-Nothing is off the table with these authorities. I will block any attempt of “return” of Karabakh no matter where I am. I am confident that anyone who believes that Nagorno-Karabakh constitutes a part of Armenian identity will do the same. By the way, this is what the Prime Minister and many of his close aids lack. They have no relation to Nagorno-Karabakh’s independence and its military accomplishments, and they hate everyone who fought for that victory. Therefore, the society must oversee any step the administration takes toward resolving Nagorno-Karabakh issue. One should not believe the Prime Minister’s contradictory statements under any circumstances.
-The issue of the price on Russian gas remains unsettled for a long time. Even though on the last day of 2018 the Prime Minister declared the issue is substantively resolved and there will be no increase in the price for the consumers. Nevertheless, it became apparent that the negotiations over the price are still underway. What’s your take—what’s going on in reality? Can we make any inferences about the state of Russian-Armenian relationship based on the length of the discussions? How will this issue be resolved in your opinion?
-The problem is indeed substantively resolved—the price of the gas is No matter how the authorities try to conceal or frame this issue, Armenian consumers will be paying for this increase either directly or indirectly. However, I would not discuss the complexity of Armenian-Russian relations from this issue only. The administration will be trying to sustain good relationship with Russia not because of their own principles, but because of the lack of a more favorable alternative. This will lead to inconsistent, vague and eclectic outcomes for resolving foreign policy issues. We can observe it already today. The challenge is the fundamental difference between Armenia’s new authorities and Russian leaders, and this difference will consistently underline the Armenian-Russian relationships. We are dealing with trainees of Soros, who, unfortunately, have a poor understanding of Russia and its culture.
-Have you had a chance to familiarize yourself with the Government’s Program of Action? How do you evaluate it?
-Yes, I have. It is a program of action with lack of actions. And presenting a 5% economic growth as a revolutionary factor is simply ridiculous. It is a collection of slogans and wishful thinking, which reveals the complete incompetence of the current administration to take any specific ambitious responsibilities to lead fundamental economic development of our country and to improve our citizens’ lives. Everyone who has some knowledge of economics mentions this observation. The administration still fails to understand that “revolution” is the worst branding factor for making Armenia attractive for investments. Moreover, the cause of poverty is not inside people’s brains, but the petty minds of authorities. By the way, the National Assembly has failed to have any substantive discussion about this, since the Prime Minister cannot properly accept any feedback and criticism. So, welcome to new reality.
-Do you think that the mood of the society is changing? What shall we expect in the future in this regard?
-The disappointment of unrealized expectations is quickly replacing the excitement flowing from the euphoric revolution. As we know from the social psychology, usually in these circumstances the euphoria turns into an anger or apathy. People feel cheated and they start looking for somebody to blame. And those who have set the high expectations and hopes become the guilty ones. This is exactly what happened after the presidential elections in 1991, when the euphoria translated into hatred towards the Pan- Armenian National Movement. The time will show how things will develop this time around. Most likely, the authorities’ ratings will fall down in autumn, and the questioning of their legitimacy will become prevalent. What will follow? A hangover with all the corresponding sensations.
-There are new charges against you in connection with Silva Hambardzyumyan’s testimony. What’s your take on this? I understand these charges are not related to main charges, right?
-New charges are like a scenario written in SIS for a cheap grotesque theatre, where the main character is an omnipresent woman who has a damaged business reputation. I have no knowledge about this woman or her businesses. Interestingly, none of the individuals involved in that “case” confirms her imaginary testimonies. I think the authorities linked these new charges to March 1 case in order to somehow influence the already formed public opinion about my political persecution.
As far as the “overthrowing the constitutional order” is concerned, I will have to reiterate that it is simply a non-sense. The 90 percent of the 76 parts of the “criminal case” have nothing to do with the Article 300.1 of the Criminal Code, which by the way did not exist in March 2008, thus it cannot be applicable. Additionally, there is also the question of my immunity as the Head of State, since my actions were exclusively in the scope of my official duties. I managed to review the pre-trial materials and could not find anything that can be incriminated to me, Michael Harutyunyan, Seiran Ohanyan or Yuri Khachaturov. Those who have ordered and framed this “criminal case” are committing felonies and will certainly bear responsibility. The entire case does not smell as justice at all. This is a classic political vendetta.
-Can you offer some commentary on the charges brought against your older son Sedrak and that case in general?
-It is an absolutely fabricated case. The authorities completely lack a moral stand and they rely on various tricks and tweaks to conflate my name to some corruption cases. That’s why my family is a target, and of course this is all in the context of exercising a political persecution against me. Their intentions were already clear in the summer along with revelations of scandalous leaked tapes. This type of anarchy existed only during 90s when the Pan-Armenian National Movement was in power and when everything was allowed for eliminating political opponents, including killings, and the persecution against their family members was a default rule.
-Are you familiar with Levon Ter-Petrosyan’s statement that he is not the ‘godfather” of Pashinyan, and they do not cooperate closely? How do you evaluate this statement?
-They share similar outlook, work methods, characters, and level of cynicism. These similarities are apparent, that’s what explains a considerable amount of media coverage about their close cooperation. It is not really important how often they interact. “Civil Contract” along with its leader is perceived as a primitive reincarnation of the Pan-Armenian National Movement.
-What’s your read of March 1 march and the Prime Minister’s statement?
-Regretfully, we observe another instance of the Prime Minister’s attempt to play with people’s genuine feelings. The irony of the situation is that the key perpetrators of the March 01 tragedy are now the key players who are manipulating people’s feelings around it. The feeling of guilt for what they have done remains in their subconscious, and even after 11 years they are unable to regret and open up for reconciliation. Everything uncovers according to Freud’s theory. The loss and grief of families of those ten victims remains a method for the administration to achieve their political goals. Initiating societal polarization and creating constant seats of internal tension and conflict has become this administration’s core essence. This will lead to nothing good.
-From last July you have announced about your return to big politics and your intentions to actively participate in all political processes. Has anything changed in your intentions?
– Of course not. I do not abandon my intentions and plans so easily, especially when under a pressure.
-What do you do these days?
-I read a lot, and of course I exercise a lot in order to stay fit.
I have started writing the continuation of my book.
Interview with “168 Hour”