July 14 It is the birthday of Lt. General Manvel Grigoryan, a participant in the Artsakh Liberation War, hero of Artsakh.

168 TV’s “Zara has a question” This time, the program was filmed in the Manvel Grigoryan Museum in Vagharshapat, and we talked during the program. With Manvel Grigoryan’s wife, the first Armenian female colonel Nazik Amiryan, Manvel Grigoryan’s comrades-in-arms Vazgen Vardanyan, Arkadi Mardanyan, Martin Sargsyan, Arsen Manukyan, Narine Mnatsakanyan, the head of the media department of the “Victory 5th Brigade” patriotic NGO.

After the well-known events of 2018, this is the first big interview about Manvel Grigoryan’s activities, and the guests of the program had the opportunity to reflect on what was happening around the general in those days, the so-called “tushonka” scandalous episode, other attempts to name him and the accusations of former friends.

Below are some excerpts from our conversation with Nazik Amiryan:

• In 1989, as part of the Echmiadzin volunteer squads, we went to Artsakh, Hadrut region for the first time, and there the volunteers were distributed by villages. I was in Melikashen village, the general was in Aknaghbyur. We carried out defensive operations as part of squads. Later, when the squads were united and Manvel Grigoryan was appointed commander, that’s how we got to know each other.

• Manvel Grigoryan was chosen as the leader of the group in the village where he was at first because he was one of the most stable and disciplined members. And although he did not have a specific military education, he had no equal in terms of correctly assessing the situation and making decisions.

• Let me tell you why the enemy set a death penalty for Manvel Grigoryan. In 1992 The Artsakh army was formed, and in the initial period our detachments were united and entered into the composition of the Artsakh army. In 1993, the brigade was already formed, and the same area where we carried out the defense, mainly “Hadrut Tzorak”. There was a whole row of villages whose border defense was carried out by our brigade, and no matter how much the Azerbaijanis tried to advance or take some actions, they all failed, and they were already talking that the reason for their defeat was the actions organized by Commander Manvel.

• When our fairly large territories were liberated, the Turks set a large bounty for the general, so that if someone managed to encroach on the general’s life, he would receive quite a lot of money. Of course, they did not succeed, and it remained in their dreams.

• For him, for the person who liberated his homeland, it was a great pleasure to go to Artsakh, to see Artsakh as it is: free, independent, growing, developing, beautifying. Grandchildren were the greatest joy in the family, and with the birth of each new grandchild, he was reborn again. He was going on a pilgrimage. they took their grandchildren with them, once a year they had to go to Artsakh for a pilgrimage. During the pilgrimage, he introduced them to territories, villages, positions, so that the children would understand from a young age what patriotism is, what is native land, what is liberated land.

• You know, in 2018 we wanted to explain to everyone that these coming authorities will give Artsakh. In 2018, nobody listened to us. These actions were taken against the general because perhaps the only person who would never agree with the current state of Artsakh would be Manvel Grigoryan. He would never agree and would never obey an order. that is, at least all the boys, whom he would gather around him and take to Artsakh, like in April 2016, would not obey the order. Perhaps, in order to avoid this, these authorities decided that the best, loudest target is Manvel Grigoryan, and they also used the opinion of the misunderstanding mass of the society and the undeserving mass and organized what we saw.

• What was shown was very difficult to explain to the public afterwards, and the reality was that after April Fool’s Day of 2016, the general gave a written order to all the land guard departments of Armenia to create warehouses so that, God forbid, if there is another episode like April Fool’s Day, we would not have a problem, just get weapons from the state and go to guard the border again. And the government, the NSS, used the concept of “reserves” very well, using the concept of a soldier’s section to create a negative public opinion. Those letters… we even presented evidence in the court in the form of a videotape of how those same letters are read on the front line, and how the general orders to collect those letters to be taken to Armenia and put in a museum.

• In other words, they used everything. they film the warehouse of Yerkhapah, where even the equipment of Yerkhapah is standing, then they edit and show that, look, “soldier’s department” is written and it is in the warehouse. And then, our society generally forgets that after 2008, General Manvel Grigoryan had no contact with the army at all. In 2008 Lieutenant General Manvel Grigoryan was discharged from the army. And in 2018 they used public opinion, they say that he usurped the soldier’s section.

• The general was immediately arrested, and since I was also accused in the case, we were forbidden to meet each other, and we did not communicate for more than a year. But the part that he had the opportunity to see already, he simply said that he could not imagine that these authorities, which were covered by the mask of democracy, would be so pro-Turkish and would sacrifice both Artsakh and our borders. And already in 2020, when Azerbaijan attacked Artsakh, and not only Artsakh, all our borders were already in a troubled situation, sitting on a wheelchair, he did not remain calm in his place. applied to the court so that the court would allow him to go to Artsakh.

• Of course, after that permission, he didn’t even stay for an hour, he immediately left for Artsakh, because he thought that even in a wheelchair, his physical presence would have some result, some result. Of course, unfortunately, he could not organize all that for a long time there, because he was infected with the coronavirus, and on October 27 he was transferred to Armenia in a serious condition.

• In those days, he published a video message from Shush, appealing to all his fighting friends, asking and warning that we are losing Artsakh, whoever has the opportunity should come to protect Artsakh.

• The war of 2020 in Artsakh lacked a general like Manvel Grigoryan, it was missing, it was not there. In other words, the soldier, the conscript fought, the soldier held his position until his last breath, but what happened was due to organization and bad commanders.

• Of course, the reality also looks a little different. according to the document signed on November 9, the army of both sides should stand where it was standing. And since our society does not own these areas, does not know them, has not been there for the most part, does not even imagine what happened. Quite large territories were handed over after signing that contract, with a verbal agreement. they pulled our boys back and gave those territories as a gift to Azerbaijan, they just gave it as a gift. The rest were given as a gift already in 2023.

• People have not seen the atrocities of the Azerbaijanis, they simply have not seen all that. we have seen, we know how they can treat the elderly, children, women, soldiers. We have seen all these atrocities since 1989, and the same atrocities were seen by the people of Artsakh who fought heroically. And today, we don’t have Artsakh, the former borders of the Republic of Armenia? today the Turk is also sitting in our land and has built such fortifications for himself that hardly anyone would think that he would give those fortifications back to the Republic of Armenia.

• I don’t believe in peace. a couple of days ago, the head of the country said: if we don’t do this, they will take Jermuk, if we don’t do this, they will take Vardenis. It is not allowed, I simply cannot imagine how it is possible to talk about our borders with such irony. The borders of Artsakh have been protected for so many years, so many children and boys have been killed.

• You know, Manvel Grigoryan’s attitude after learning that news (we are talking about the contract of November 9. – Z.D.) analyzed our whole life in just one sentence, as well as all the unpleasant situations he went through in those 2 years. he simply said that it could be endured, but it is impossible to endure the loss of Artsakh. And so he left. He could not bear the loss of Artsakh, because at that time, you know, the doctors recorded that there was a positive change in him. After ten months, he suddenly got worse.

• As much as we thinkHe was very strict, but he tried to interpret the betrayal of his friends in his own way, to find positive shades, tried to get rid of that treacherous move. He said that maybe they were forced, maybe the opponents put something in there that they couldn’t get out of it, they had to. He was justifying. I look drier. I said, “Oh, that’s how it happened,” he said, “No, don’t look like that, think that that person might have been pushed against the wall, he thought that I am a strong person, I will endure more than him.” At least, he didn’t leave angry with his friends.

• I don’t know if other nations have that expression or not, they say: go die, come love. Our elders always say that our nation does not like living heroes, its heroes must die, be martyred and centuries pass, sanctify their heroes. The character of Manvel Grigoryan’s military commander will still be used. We can see from history that the same policy was followed towards Andranik, Nzhdeh, Dro, everyone. If Andranik had not managed to leave Armenia, they would have been judged by the same articles.

Excerpts from a conversation with comrades in arms

• He was a different person. he simply did not communicate, and the people who play with his name today did not communicate with him, they do not know that person.

• On the battlefield, he called, spread the map and explained. It was strict, but on the one hand, it was fair, after 10 minutes you didn’t recognize the same person. he put aside his strictness, because he was a soldier with a soldier, and a commander with a commander.

• Manvel Grigoryan was both a big brother and a parent for us. I regret to say that all this should not have happened to our Armenian people.

• God will open the light one day, we will all be in Artsakh. I say it again, I said it a long time ago: an Armenian is never a murderer, an Armenian just wants to keep and protect his ancestral land and water, his sanctity, his Christianity. A soldier does not want war, a soldier is always the owner of peace. yes, we are the owners of peace, but if the enemy does not understand this, what kind of peace are we talking about? He wants to see us on his knees, but he is excluded.

Excerpts from the conversation of Narine Mnatsakanyan, a former employee of the YCU media:

• 2018 in general, before those incidents reached the commander, I thought that people who have not seen Artsakh are coming to power. They did not know what Artsakh is, it was easy to surrender Artsakh to them. And what about General Manvel… General Manvel was unmanageable, no one could lead General Manvel, control him, tell him that it should be like this. And this government did not need such people.

• They could not tell General Manvel that we have to sacrifice a lot and then say that we are giving land. General Manvel could not be told to give Artsakh so that we can live well, and General Manvel would not obey these lying generals. I will give a name. I never gave, General Manvel was not Melkonian Gago. You could not convince General Manvel to give Artsakh. He himself would have said: we will die, but we will keep our land as much as we can, but we cannot give Artsakh, our age-old enemy, as a gift.

Details in the video

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